Conversation with linc3@conference.fnal.gov at 2005-10-17 17:50:47 on lauram@jabber.fnal.gov/gaim-work-2 (jabber)

(17:50:47) lauram [lauram@jabber.fnal.gov/gaim-work-2] entered the room.
(17:50:47) linc3
(17:50:47) Chris [corky825@jabber.fnal.gov/Adium] entered the room.
(17:53:18) aturkot [aturkot@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:53:46) aturkot: Hi Chris
(17:54:26) Luann [lhopkins@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:02:45) Luann: Chris, to my kids to the cemetery last Tues. What a great day
(18:02:59) Luann: Sorry on the spelling, it should say took my kids
(18:03:06) Chris: Fantastic! Tell be about it
(18:03:43) Luann: The week before I asked them what they knew about cemeteries. We did the K on KWL. It was great to hear what they said
(18:04:07) Chris: Hope you jotted down some notes on that!
(18:04:25) Luann: Then on Wed. or Thurs. I told them we were going to do research and read the letter from the Historical Society and they were so excited.
(18:04:34) Luann: Yes, I did notes, just not posted yet
(18:04:49) Chris: Can't wait to read them....
(18:04:55) Chris: So your hook worked?
(18:05:21) Luann: When we were there we did headstone rubbings, worked with GPS units, recorded data from headstones and collect leaves to determine what trees were growingthere.
(18:05:49) Luann: My hook was great, they can't wait to make a display for the museum...
(18:06:20) Chris: I wish I could have come on your trip.....sounds like it was a blast!
(18:06:59) Luann: When we came back we calculated the ages of the people who died. Tomorrow we go to the computer lab and do some research on and record all the info of the people they wrote down about. Even the extra people I took with me thought it was great and the kids were excited.
(18:07:48) Chris: Did anyone from the historical society do a presentation.....be a dead person?
(18:08:31) Luann: My husband came along and worked with the kids on the GPS unit. He had them walk from one end of the section to the other and they saw their path as they were walking. No one came for a presentation yet. We are still working on that.
(18:09:02) Luann: My kids know more about the GPS than I do. We are going to do more with them on our playground.
(18:09:19) plindem [plindem@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:09:21) Chris: Sounds like you did fine without the presentation.... but it would still be interesting if you can get it going.
(18:09:26) aturkot: okay I'm back
(18:09:40) Chris: Practicing the GPS on the playground is a fantastic idea!
(18:10:04) Chris: Luann has just been filling me in on her trip to the cemetery! A roaring success!
(18:10:21) Luann: I have already made notes on changes for next year..want to do it with another class from another school.
(18:10:52) aturkot: that sounds really cool
(18:10:56) Luann: Are we all here now?
(18:10:57) Chris: That's sounds like a great idea
(18:11:19) Chris: Sill missing Mary and Susan (who said she would be late)
(18:11:39) plindem: Sorry, so late. Got roped into coaching VB and I don't get out of there until 5:30
(18:12:18) Chris: Understand completely......glad you got here as soon as you did under those circumstances.
(18:12:21) Chris: But we have already started as the first thing on our agenda....
(18:12:34) Chris: which is Hook and Task
(18:13:02) Chris: Luann has a full head of steam with her project .... and is moving right along...
(18:13:22) Chris: anyone else want to share how their hook went?
(18:13:39) aturkot: I am starting full steam on Monday... I had to finish up the unit so they had some background knowledge...
(18:13:44) aturkot: and some key words
(18:13:57) aturkot: I think that it is going to be harder than I thought it would have been with 1st graders
(18:14:23) Chris: You are doing the right thing...
(18:14:23) Luann: Amy, what's your hook?
(18:14:28) aturkot: I am stil having the Mayor come and ask the kids to do research for her
(18:14:35) Chris: setting the stage and getting them prepared.
(18:14:47) Chris: Is she coming?
(18:14:51) aturkot: I have some artifacts from all around the world
(18:15:02) aturkot: yes she is coming
(18:15:34) Chris: That is great! The students should be really excited to have someone important come to speak to them.
(18:15:48) aturkot: then she is going to see the artifacts and ask them to see how other communities are like or different from Bartlett
(18:16:03) Luann: I think building that background knowlege is the key to success.
(18:16:17) Luann: sounds fun and exciting
(18:16:22) aturkot: then we are going to use Kidsperation to take notes
(18:16:51) aturkot: I am hoping that they will talk about other countries
(18:17:02) Chris: I am always amazed at how well little ones do with Kidspiration....intuitive I believe.
(18:17:14) aturkot: I have already lined up parent helpers to come in and help students with research
(18:17:28) Chris: Great going Amy!
(18:17:41) aturkot: I can't do it alone with 25 7 year olds
(18:17:49) Chris: :-)
(18:17:51) aturkot: so I will be able to tell you more about it next week
(18:17:58) Luann: Wonderful!!:)
(18:18:15) Chris: I am exhausted after spending four days with my four grandchildren 5 and under....
(18:18:26) Chris: My hat is off to you for teaching 1st grade!
(18:18:32) Luann: I can imagine
(18:18:40) aturkot: thanks but I could not teach older I don't think
(18:19:08) Chris: They are so-o-o-o cute!
(18:19:24) Chris: How about you Pam?
(18:19:31) plindem: I am starting on Monday also. We are finishing our expository writing unit, and the assistant principal is going to come in to enlist the students help in welcoming new students to the school. So I've changed my hook a little from the original.
(18:19:31) Chris: Have you started yet?
(18:20:14) Chris: That's fine....you have to change lots of things as you progress through your project.
(18:20:48) Chris: What is he going to say to the students to get them hooked.
(18:21:58) plindem: We have about twenty new kids in our team alone, so he is going to talk about the importance of making them feel comfortable in the school as the community. Hopefully...
(18:22:32) plindem: the kids will come up with lots of ideas to help the new students and families
(18:23:20) Chris: Your project will certainly have an impact on not only the students but...
(18:23:28) Chris: their families and the community as a whole.
(18:23:55) Chris: I will be very interested in hearing the feedback you get from people about your project.
(18:24:23) Chris: It is a great idea and could be replicated to other schools as well
(18:24:40) Luann: sounds like a great project
(18:24:44) plindem: He has offered to publish anything they can come up with to include in a new student packet. I think that will really give them the motivation to do their best.
(18:24:45) aturkot: it is also something that students can relate to
(18:25:26) plindem: For junior high kids, it's all about them!
(18:25:27) Chris: Most definitely
(18:26:05) plindem: So that's what I'm looking forward to.
(18:26:32) Chris: Does anyone have any questions about the hook or task right now?
(18:26:39) Luann: no
(18:26:43) plindem: No
(18:26:58) Chris: Amy?
(18:27:06) aturkot: no
(18:27:24) aturkot: I may when I start on Monday
(18:27:56) Chris: I promise to answer your emails ASAP from now on :-)
(18:28:51) Chris: I think we can move on to the second item on the agenda...
(18:29:17) Luann: which was?
(18:29:21) Chris: and if Susan or Mary show up later, we can have them share their hook's progress at that time.
(18:29:45) Chris: The second item will be to discuss the two articles on assessment that we had for homework.
(18:29:57) Chris: Did everyone read them?
(18:30:05) aturkot: do we go to the other chat room for that?
(18:30:12) aturkot: I read them
(18:30:13) Luann: Yes, interesting and thought provoking
(18:30:16) plindem: Yes
(18:30:57) Chris: We stay here for that.....we break to another chat room later.
(18:31:13) Luann: Personnally, I like this group and don't want to move!!!!
(18:31:18) aturkot: me too
(18:31:26) plindem: me three
(18:31:31) Chris: Count me in on that one!
(18:31:39) aturkot: but I thought that I saw we go to another room for the debrief on articles
(18:31:48) smcnicho [smcnicho@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:32:09) aturkot: I am confused
(18:32:13) Chris: I just checked my notes and you are correct!
(18:32:33) Chris: I am still hitting the ground running....just got back into town at 5pm today!
(18:32:43) Luann: Can Susan give us her hook and task?
(18:32:43) aturkot: ohhh well why don't we just stay here and start and tell them we already started
(18:33:27) Chris: Hey....Susan just got here!
(18:33:43) Chris: We can ask her about her hook....what timing!!
(18:34:14) smcnicho: Hello all.
(18:34:15) Chris: Susan....we have been sharing our Hook experience......how it went, etc.
(18:34:25) Chris: Or how we are planning it.
(18:34:29) smcnicho: So I've been reading
(18:34:32) Chris: Where are you on your Hook, Susan?
(18:34:55) smcnicho: Ive been finishing a unit in Science...
(18:35:21) smcnicho: and I believe I'll be able to start in 1-2 weeks.
(18:36:05) smcnicho: My hook was all the newspaper coverage on the drought...
(18:36:49) smcnicho: and therefore the lack of fresh water. I was hoping maybe some kids would remember Katrina and the water problem there.
(18:38:06) Chris: I keep reading things here and there that are still reflecting about the drought...
(18:38:24) Chris: such as don't prune back your bushes because you may kill them due to the drought...
(18:38:51) Chris: continue to water your trees into the fall or they may not survive the after effects of the drought....etc.
(18:39:35) Chris: Maybe you could collect some of those, or have the kids collect them to show that the after effects continue on.
(18:39:36) smcnicho: Right. I want the kids to research the effects and share their findings.
(18:40:24) Chris: I think you will get some interesting discussions going.
(18:40:35) Chris: How do you plan on introducing the hook?
(18:41:16) smcnicho: I've collected many articles and headlines and plan to display them to get the kids interested.
(18:42:09) smcnicho: Ultimately, they will share their findings on a website that compares data on water usage around the world.
(18:42:12) Chris: Have you thought of some good lead-in questions to get them started?
(18:42:58) smcnicho: The headlines are quite interesting an varied...
(18:44:15) smcnicho: so I thought students would form interest groups from the topics in the articles.
(18:45:03) smcnicho: I haven't thought of any specific lead in questions
(18:46:51) Chris: You may want to have some questions ready to direct them toward the topic if they start taking off in a direction that is totally off target.
(18:47:03) Chris: That happens quite frequently....
(18:47:15) Chris: sometimes you can go with the flow....
(18:47:20) Chris: other times you may not wish to.
(18:47:41) Chris: But it is wise to be ready either way.
(18:48:18) smcnicho: I learned a way to organize their brainstorming questions - lotus diagram. Have you heard of that?
(18:48:32) Luann: no
(18:48:35) aturkot: no
(18:48:44) plindem: me neither
(18:48:55) Chris: Tell us about it
(18:49:06) smcnicho: Through brainstorming, bunches of questions are generated...
(18:50:05) smcnicho: but are usually unorganized. Lotus diagrams have the main topic in the center and in 8 boxes around the center...
(18:51:14) smcnicho: In these 8 boxes are 8 subtopics. The questions are grouped then according to these 8 subtopics. I'm starting out with a much smaller version.
(18:51:31) Chris: That sounds perfect!
(18:51:40) aturkot: that sounds like that would help to organize
(18:52:22) Chris: Now I won't worry about you Susan :-)
(18:52:56) smcnicho: You don't have to worry about me. I'm ok
(18:53:16) Chris: I think we are about ready to move on to the Debrief of Articles.
(18:53:28) Chris: Don't leave until I say GO
(18:53:35) aturkot: okay
(18:53:42) Chris: Do you all know where you are headed?
(18:53:50) Luann: ok I believe I go to room 2
(18:54:12) aturkot: I go to 4
(18:54:12) plindem: I'm in room 5
(18:54:30) aturkot: yes Luann you go to 2 I just checked
(18:54:45) Luann: thanks Amy
(18:54:52) mgehrig [mgehrig@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:54:53) smcnicho: and I go to 2 also
(18:54:59) Amy I [aingente@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:55:19) Luann: Chris, can we go?
(18:55:31) smcnicho: Hey, I'm already in 2! Was I supposed to be in 3 before?
(18:55:33) Chris: GO
(18:55:42) aturkot left the room.
(18:55:56) Chris: In this room should be;
(18:55:58) Chris: Ellen, Kristin, Rachel, Justine, Marie, Mary O.
(18:56:04) plindem left the room.
(18:56:10) mgehrig: marie is here
(18:56:26) Chris: Sorry....should be: Julie W., Barb Susan P., Amy I., and Marie
(18:56:35) Amy I: yes
(18:56:41) smcnicho: No, I go to 3. See ya.
(18:56:52) smcnicho left the room.
(18:57:02) Chris: linc2 should be: Julie W., Barb Susan P., Amy I., and Marie
(18:57:15) smcnicho [smcnicho@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:57:18) Chris: linc4 should be: Julie C., Kristen, Amy T., Mary M., Jeanie, and Ken
(18:57:29) Chris: linc5 should be: Lynn, Paula, Pam, Rachel, and Ellen
(18:58:07) spiltave [spiltave@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:58:10) mgehrig: I thought I was in 3. MArie
(18:58:17) jmac3412 [jmac3412@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:58:17) smcnicho left the room.
(18:58:24) mgehrig: You have me in two rooms
(18:58:25) Amy I: so did I. I know I'm with you, marie
(18:58:39) mgehrig: IThanks
(18:58:54) Chris: Marie is here in linc3
(18:59:04) bfolan [bfolan@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:59:21) spiltave: I think I am in here with Barb, right?\
(18:59:22) Chris: I should have Julie W, Barb, Susan P, Amy I, and Marie
(18:59:34) mgehrig: O:-)I thought I would put my glasses on
(18:59:37) bfolan: i'm here
(18:59:43) Amy I: I'm here, also
(18:59:55) mgehrig: I'm here
(19:00:02) spiltave: I'm here, Sue P.
(19:00:30) Luann left the room.
(19:00:36) jmac3412: i'm here...julie w
(19:00:39) Chris: Great! My group is all accounted for!
(19:01:54) Chris: Did you all read the two articles on assessment?
(19:01:58) Amy I: yes
(19:02:02) bfolan: yes
(19:02:02) spiltave: yes
(19:02:04) mgehrig: yes
(19:02:04) jmac3412: yes
(19:02:21) Chris: Oooooo....a gifted group! :-)
(19:02:36) jmac3412: we try!
(19:03:19) Chris: If you had to pick one thing from the articles that really hit home with you, what would that be?
(19:03:33) spiltave: That we are doing it right at my school!!!!!
(19:03:50) Chris: That's an important thing!
(19:03:53) jmac3412: that we have been trying to do it right too!
(19:04:00) bfolan: the pressure of all to do well on standardized testing
(19:04:06) jmac3412: too bad state assessments won't do it right too
(19:04:10) mgehrig: We are trying
(19:04:12) bfolan: i agree
(19:04:19) Amy I: That it is wonderful, but I cannot do it because of that standardized testing and pressure from teh district
(19:04:40) Chris: Is assessment a big item in your schools?
(19:04:44) bfolan: yes
(19:04:46) spiltave: YES!!!!
(19:04:53) mgehrig: yes
(19:04:56) Amy I: yes!
(19:05:02) bfolan: Bye the way SUe and I teach in the same school
(19:05:04) jmac3412: it is in ours, but we still try to assess in many different ways
(19:05:09) spiltave: I feel like all we do is assess or get ready to assess or grade assessments
(19:05:17) bfolan: i agree
(19:05:26) Amy I: me, too!
(19:05:33) mgehrig: ditto
(19:05:45) Chris: Are a lot of you going toward district-wide common assessments?
(19:05:55) Amy I: We have a few versions of that...
(19:05:58) bfolan: we have 6 week assessments
(19:06:12) bfolan: they are common to the grade but very ISAT like
(19:06:22) jmac3412: our district talks about it, but we aren't there yet
(19:06:34) Amy I: All of our middle schools are taking computerized MAPS tests 3 times a year, and we just started quartly testing in math
(19:06:51) bfolan: We do MAP as well but only...
(19:06:54) mgehrig: We do the computerized ed performance tests
(19:06:59) bfolan: in the Fall and Spring
(19:07:05) spiltave: Barb and I are at the same school. Our report cards are the Illinois Goals and our common assessments are based on our report cards
(19:07:06) Chris: Our district is using the MAPS testing as well.
(19:07:09) jmac3412: our school just started that as well in 3-6 twice a year math and reading and 2nd grade will do it at the end of the year
(19:07:20) mgehrig: We test 3 times a year not including ISATS
(19:07:35) bfolan: We also give QRI twice a year
(19:08:14) Amy I: Seems like no one has time to teach!:)
(19:08:25) bfolan: no kidding>:o
(19:08:28) mgehrig: We try
(19:08:36) Chris: I understand completely!
(19:08:39) Chris: What do you feel are the most helpful assessments for students?
(19:09:00) jmac3412: barb..what grade do you teach?
(19:09:03) bfolan: 5th
(19:09:17) jmac3412: and you have to do maps and qri???
(19:09:20) spiltave: I kind of like our 6 week assessments because they are so closely tied with the report cards
(19:09:26) jmac3412: that really takes up time!
(19:09:37) bfolan: yes to show growth....
(19:09:49) bfolan: Out principal like triangulation of data...
(19:10:10) Chris: Anyone else on what you feel are the most helpful assessments for students?
(19:10:18) Amy I: THe most helpful assessment for the kids would be/should be authentic and formative
(19:10:30) jmac3412: growth that comes from the time we are given to actually teach...so what 30 seconds a day!! :-!
(19:10:31) bfolan: between MAP, common assessments, ISAT as well at teacher created
(19:10:38) mgehrig: I don't like any of the assessments that the school requires. I personally like the ones were the students have imput
(19:10:57) bfolan: I agree with you jmac
(19:11:01) Amy I: Yes, district required tests are not helpful!
(19:11:08) bfolan: YEs amy
(19:11:16) Amy I: u46?
(19:11:19) spiltave: Do you guys give grades on report cards?
(19:11:22) bfolan: they are practice for ISAT
(19:11:24) mgehrig: oUR DISTRICT is data driven.
(19:11:50) bfolan: so is ours ...
(19:12:05) jmac3412: in first no...our school created a standards based reporting tool...k-3 is without grades and 4-6 has standards and grades
(19:12:12) Amy I: I'm at a middle school, and we give grades.
(19:12:33) bfolan: it's centered around student achievemnt
(19:12:54) mgehrig: I give grades on report cards. WE use to have a check list that was standard based but we found with the high turn over with teachers, this was inconsistant.
(19:13:01) Chris: Some of the spotlight on data comes from external forces....
(19:13:06) spiltave: We give IP fro in progree, M for meets, and E for Exceeds standard
(19:13:17) Chris: and these we have little to say about.
(19:13:31) spiltave: I don't mind being data driven if we are doing something with the data.
(19:13:32) Chris: What we need to concentrate on is what type of assessments we can use...
(19:13:45) jmac3412: splitave...my thoughts exactly
(19:13:46) Chris: in our classes and projects to help our students growth.
(19:14:02) mgehrig: I'm part of a School Imprvement team that creates the school goals for the state. It is very interesting.
(19:14:07) spiltave: If it is just to make kids feel bad or teachers feel incompetent, then why bother.
(19:14:13) jmac3412: i am sick of analyzing what's wrong without trying to find a way to make it better. (sorry, it's my learning style)
(19:14:42) bfolan: we have to report our scores...
(19:14:57) bfolan: so there is alot of anticipation on how students will do...
(19:15:04) spiltave: Does the assessment data we get change our teaching?
(19:15:04) bfolan: it's almost frightening
(19:15:34) mgehrig: We have to map our curriculum on line so others can see what we do an justify why we do it.
(19:15:37) bfolan: We know what we must reteach or teach better or who needs to move on onto harder stuff
(19:16:18) Chris: What assessment exercises and scoring procedures do you employ to accurately reflect your students' achievements?
(19:16:33) mgehrig: I use rubrics.
(19:16:57) bfolan: rubrics
(19:17:15) bfolan: I also like to demonstrate growth over a year with a portfolio
(19:17:16) jmac3412: i was mentioning in my last chat that sometimes informal assessments show us this best...today i had a student who was using the materials given to sort rocks without any discussion or guidance...he formulated a plan and did it. it was apparant to me that he already had a good grasp on this idea
(19:17:34) Amy I: I also use rubrics. I also spend a lot of time teaching students to self assess.
(19:18:03) mgehrig: Other quality tool consist of science notebooks, lotus diagrams, concept maps,self assessment,
(19:18:28) jmac3412: i use rubrics and checklists. i would like to also begin providing my students with more self-assessment/reflection time
(19:18:51) bfolan: I need to spend more time having...
(19:18:57) bfolan: students self-assess...
(19:19:02) mgehrig: They still teach them how to take standardized test.
(19:19:08) bfolan: it will help them understand where they need to go...
(19:19:10) Chris: These all sound great.....student centered.
(19:19:14) Chris: How do you frame those results into insights for students on how they can improve?
(19:19:17) bfolan: often there are so far off from reality.
(19:20:08) mgehrig: Middle school, I model alot. WE set academic goals
(19:20:18) bfolan: I like to conference with studentsor small groups to give them individual feedback
(19:20:31) mgehrig: WE check to see if they are meeting them.
(19:20:40) Chris: Modeling, conferenceing....I love you guys!
(19:20:47) Amy I: As I teach self assessment, I have them assess a piece of work, and let them go back and fix their mistakes. This helps the next time they do the work as well.
(19:20:48) mgehrig: They like conference time
(19:21:12) bfolan: I like giving them their work back as well...
(19:21:29) bfolan: nothing worth doing can be done well in ione shot...
(19:21:51) mgehrig: This is true but the real world says sometihng else
(19:21:54) bfolan: not if it requires higher level thinking.. at least most of the time.
(19:22:12) mgehrig: Tell that to a factory boss
(19:22:30) bfolan: :-$
(19:22:49) mgehrig: Not every one will get a higher level thinking job
(19:23:31) bfolan: no but they never will if we don't show them how to think that way
(19:23:53) mgehrig: this is true
(19:24:02) Chris: How have you communicated to parents about their children's progress other than report cards or achievement test results?
(19:24:22) Chris: Besides p/t conf
(19:24:32) bfolan: we have a large ELL population so communication is often difficult due to the language barrier...
(19:24:53) mgehrig: Just in papers that go home
(19:25:16) bfolan: Also, because of their extremely experiences in school many don't care to communicate...
(19:25:33) bfolan: for a variety of reasons fear, working, etc.
(19:25:53) jmac3412: papers to go home, sometimes i photocopy a copy of the checklist that i've used, etc
(19:25:57) Amy I: We have language problems, also. So, we do student led conferences. We conference with the kids and then have the students conference with the parents (and an adult who speaks spanish).
(19:26:05) spiltave: I agree Barb. Either they have had poor ecperiences or they fell intimidated by their lack of education
(19:26:13) Chris: That's great Amy
(19:26:23) bfolan: we are thinking about student led conferences
(19:26:24) mgehrig: I was thinking of sending a parent letter home explainng the project we are doing. WE do send home a monthly newsletter.This is used to inform parents.
(19:26:33) Chris: I have seen student let conf in action and they are something to behold
(19:26:42) bfolan: How much prep to you have with students before they lead
(19:26:54) mgehrig: How do you do that with 155 students
(19:26:54) Chris: That sounds great Marie
(19:26:57) Amy I: They are a lot of work...
(19:27:15) Amy I: We have advisory groups....
(19:27:24) Amy I: So each teacher on the team is responsible for about 30 kids...
(19:27:32) spiltave: My daughter is in junior high and we just had student led conferences two weeks ago
(19:27:45) mgehrig: how did that work
(19:28:21) spiltave: Each teacher was responsible for a group of kids and scheduling thir times...
(19:28:34) Amy I: We have the kids fill out forms that help lead them through the conference...They meet with us to discuss what they put, then we go through it again with the parents.
(19:28:59) mgehrig: So they don't necessarily meet with all of the teachers
(19:28:59) spiltave: All of her grade reoprts from each class were in a folder along with goal sheets...
(19:29:18) mgehrig: WHat if there was an issue with a teacher
(19:29:19) spiltave: I met with the teacher in charge of her conference and one other
(19:29:23) Amy I: No, just one or two teachers at our school. Hard to schedule 150 parents in just the few hours, so we need to split up.
(19:29:42) Amy I: If there were problems, we schedule another conference or have the teacher call the next day.
(19:29:51) spiltave: I had a problem with the LA teacher. When I was done looking at her folder, I went to find him
(19:30:08) mgehrig: Did the other teachers give comments to the conferencing teachers?
(19:30:26) Amy I: Yes...another form that we filled out. It was just a quick checklist...
(19:30:29) mgehrig: Were you able to speak with the LA tacher
(19:30:37) Amy I: But for the most part, the kids act the same in all classes.
(19:30:44) spiltave: It was all done on computer, a list of all assignements and test with the points possible and the points received
(19:31:02) spiltave: Yes, he was sitting in his room alone grading papers.
(19:31:08) Chris: I really hate to break this discussion up...
(19:31:10) mgehrig: HA HA
(19:31:18) Chris: but everyone is telling me it is time to move on.
(19:31:23) Chris: You guys are GREAT!
(19:31:43) mgehrig: bye
(19:31:45) spiltave: Wait she should know that more than one kid is conferencing in the room at the same time
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(19:31:58) aturkot [aturkot@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:31:59) Chris: You need to return to your original group tonight.
(19:32:00) Amy I: bye
(19:32:00) mgehrig left the room.
(19:32:06) bfolan: ok
(19:32:17) bfolan left the room.
(19:32:20) Amy I left the room.
(19:32:31) spiltave: bye
(19:32:37) spiltave left the room.
(19:33:06) Chris: Ok....original group here/
(19:33:22) aturkot: yes
(19:33:23) Chris: We have Luann and Amy
(19:33:23) Luann [lhopkins@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:33:44) Chris: Now we are missing Pam and Susan
(19:34:01) smcnicho [smcnicho@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:34:11) Chris: Anybody see them passing in the halls?
(19:34:23) Chris: Ah...there is Susan
(19:34:32) smcnicho: Hello again
(19:34:35) Luann: I thought Pam was in my last chat room 2
(19:34:45) pam [plindem@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:34:53) Chris: There she is!
(19:35:05) Chris: Great - we are all back!
(19:35:07) pam: Sorry, we went a little long.
(19:35:16) Chris: Did you all have a good discussion?
(19:35:23) smcnicho: very
(19:35:24) Luann: yes, very interesting
(19:35:28) pam: Yes.
(19:35:42) aturkot: yes
(19:36:01) Chris: It was hard to stop the discussion....great ideas and sharing going on.
(19:36:13) pam: Definitely
(19:37:00) Chris: We are now ready for the third and LAST agenda item tonight..
(19:37:13) Chris: Rubric design and assessment questions
(19:38:01) Luann: I see we are all excited about this
(19:38:15) Chris: We all need to go to the following URL and look at the first 7 steps in Rubric development
(19:38:16) Chris: http://edweb.sdsu.edu/triton/july/rubrics/Rubric_Guidelines.html
(19:38:59) Chris: This will probably be a rehash for most of you.
(19:39:23) aturkot: got it
(19:40:10) smcnicho: Its nice to have it written simply like this.
(19:40:59) Chris: When you determine the learning outcomes, the question to ask yourself is...
(19:41:01) Chris: Does the rubric correlate with the outcomes of the project?
(19:41:27) Chris: It also helps to ask your students to help you create the verbiage so that it is meaningful and clear to them.
(19:41:54) Chris: And remember: Evaluate only measurable criteria—Remember, you can’t measure such verbs as awareness, enthusiasm, understand, etc.
(19:42:35) Chris: Do any of you have some "words of wisdom" when it comes to writing rubrics?
(19:43:19) aturkot: I find that at my grade level one sentence criteria is easier for them to understand
(19:43:35) aturkot: I also use the happy faces for them to rate their work
(19:43:42) pam: It's easier for Jr, High, too.
(19:44:12) Chris: I agree Pam but Amy sure has some good ideas for her 1st graders
(19:44:34) pam: Absolutely.
(19:45:23) Chris: Here are a few things to consider when writing the terms to use in measuring rang/scoring levels
(19:45:38) Chris: The labels on top are less important than the clear descriptors in the boxes.
(19:45:51) Chris: 2-• The labels should indicate a score—not a range of points in each box
(19:46:06) Chris: 3-• One strategy is to write the top level of each criterion first.
(19:46:34) Chris: then within that description, circle the words that could vary...
(19:46:45) Chris: These words will be the ones that you will change as you write the less than top level performance categories
(19:47:27) Chris: let's take a look at an example of a rubric for a creating a Webquest..
(19:47:37) Chris: http://webquest.sdsu.edu/webquestrubric.html
(19:48:22) Luann: are we suppose to go to this site?
(19:48:31) Chris: This is way out of range for Amy's classes, but we can look at it for clarity
(19:48:38) Chris: Yes, click on the link
(19:49:34) smcnicho: is this for teachers to evaluate prepared webquests?
(19:49:45) Luann: I can't get it to come up
(19:50:04) Chris: yes
(19:50:10) Luann: I need to reboot which means I will have to close out and come back
(19:50:20) Chris: Look at it later Luann
(19:50:24) Luann: ok
(19:50:30) Chris: We can tell you the highpoints
(19:50:35) Luann: Thanks
(19:50:43) Chris: I will send you the links in an email so you can look at it later.
(19:50:56) Luann: I wrote down the address so I should be ok
(19:51:37) Chris: It is a good example of clear descriptors and also adding links to a rubric that is presented online to go....
(19:51:54) Chris: to the criteria used for various parts of the rubric.
(19:52:26) Chris: Here is an example of a Fermi Project Rubric created early on in the program...
(19:52:39) Chris: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/help/Meehan_Nolan/student/river_monitoring-rubric.html
(19:52:52) Chris: Click on that (if you can)
(19:53:39) Chris: Note that there are too many subjective verbs and wording
(19:53:43) aturkot: got it
(19:54:00) aturkot: that is not kid friendly
(19:54:16) pam: Many of these criteria are really unmeasurable
(19:54:28) Chris: Right
(19:55:01) Chris: A positive is that each rubric item has a clear focus....
(19:55:26) Chris: they just need to improve on the subjective wording and revise it to be more effective.
(19:55:46) Chris: Here is another rubric .....
(19:55:58) Chris: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/help/Relativity/student/endoyrub/yeprub.shtml
(19:56:18) Chris: Click on Literature Search Rubric
(19:56:56) Chris: There are two negatives here:
(19:57:04) Chris: 1-Written for teacher so students will not be able to understand the target
(19:57:16) Chris: 2-Range of points are too subjective—even though it is minimal
(19:58:05) Chris: A positive is that they broke down the rubrics so none is huge; however they have too many rubrics for one project
(19:58:15) smcnicho: I'm not a HS physics teacher, but this is too much!
(19:58:40) Chris: Rubriced to death!
(19:58:55) smcnicho: I need a dictionary!
(19:59:05) aturkot: that one is a bit much for me too
(19:59:15) aturkot: I got lost after the 1st criteria
(19:59:45) Chris: Now lets look at one that is closer to the target.....but remember nothing is perfect....always room for improvement.
(19:59:55) Chris: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/lincon/act/examples/rubrics/anwar_content.doc
(20:00:44) Chris: and this one
(20:00:47) Chris: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/lincon/act/examples/rubrics/nationalparks.doc
(20:00:59) Chris: These will open as word documents.
(20:02:27) Chris: Are you able to look at them?
(20:02:31) aturkot: yes
(20:02:45) smcnicho: yes
(20:02:55) Luann: no
(20:03:02) Luann: I have a stupid computer
(20:03:20) pam: I'm not getting the last two yet.
(20:03:23) smcnicho: calling it names will not help
(20:03:26) Chris: Don't say that outloud, Luann....your computer may hear you
(20:03:44) Chris: Ok....just look at them when you get a chance.
(20:04:13) Chris: I will email out a short email with these examples so you have them to refer to when you are working on your own rubrics.
(20:04:46) pam: Thanks
(20:04:49) Chris: I think you all understand how the end of the project rubric can be used as a tool to assess FOR learning during the project?
(20:05:12) smcnicho: yes
(20:05:22) aturkot: yes
(20:05:23) pam: Yes.
(20:05:26) Luann: yes, looking forward to looking at those rubrics
(20:05:34) Chris: :-)
(20:06:22) Chris: Do you think that your students would benefit from filling in the rubric during the project as a self-assessment checkpoint?
(20:06:37) Luann: yes,
(20:06:46) pam: yes
(20:06:46) aturkot: for sure
(20:06:47) smcnicho: yes, that would go with formative assessement.
(20:07:13) Chris: Ok guys.....I will send that out to you tonight...
(20:07:24) Luann: thanks, I appreciate it
(20:07:25) Chris: and I have one announcement before we take off...
(20:07:33) aturkot: thanks for sending that out
(20:07:46) Chris: We will be meeting online next week for class.....NOT AT FERMI!!
(20:07:51) Chris: YEAH!!!
(20:07:55) pam: YEAH!!!
(20:07:55) Luann: Yeah!!!
(20:07:57) aturkot: oh good
(20:08:07) smcnicho: Thanks
(20:08:18) Chris: Make sure you check the homepage for assignments.....
(20:08:21) aturkot: now what about on Halloween when we have trick or treaters at our door
(20:08:34) Chris: And good luck with your projects!
(20:08:42) Luann: thanks
(20:08:50) aturkot: thanks
(20:08:57) Chris: On Halloween, we still meet but you can come later - just let me know ahead of time.
(20:09:18) Chris: Thanks guys....you are the best!
(20:09:20) aturkot: okay.. thanks
(20:09:21) pam: Thanks Good-bye.
(20:09:24) aturkot: good night
(20:09:25) smcnicho: bye
(20:09:27) pam left the room.
(20:09:27) Chris: Bye
(20:09:28) aturkot left the room.
(20:09:29) Luann: Thanks, good-bye
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