Conversation with linc2@conference.fnal.gov at 2005-10-24 17:49:16 on lauram@jabber.fnal.gov/gaim-work-2 (jabber)

(17:49:16) lauram [lauram@jabber.fnal.gov/gaim-work-2] entered the room.
(17:49:16) linc2
(17:17:50) ppeterso: I have been trying to get my password sent to me all day. I couldn't post today.
(17:49:44) sgatz [sgatz@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:50:48) lauram: Hi Paula, welcome.
(17:50:56) lauram: Do you mean the bulletin board password?
(17:52:05) Julie W [jmac3412@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:52:35) Julie W left the room.
(17:52:43) lauram: Paula, are you there?
(17:52:48) jmac3412 [jmac3412@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:54:13) ppeterso: yes
(17:54:29) ppeterso: yes
(17:54:38) lauram: the password is [removed] if you have not changed it.
(17:54:59) ppeterso: I didn't change it-- i forgot part of it
(17:55:13) lauram: You are welcome to come to the breakout on the bulletin board if you like (or not).
(17:55:19) ppeterso: Thanks.
(17:55:38) lauram: Otherwise give it a whirl after class and let us know how it goes.
(17:55:40) ppeterso: Do I have time to post now or should I wait until class is over
(17:56:16) lauram: waiting till class is over is better - that way you should be able to get more out of the class instead of being pulled in 2 directions.
(17:56:47) ppeterso: okay
(17:57:11) sgatz: Hi everyone--hope you all made it through the old and wet Monday.
(17:59:04) ppeterso: Hi Sharon, Thanks for all the encouragement. I was ready to give up.
(17:59:41) sgatz: Don't give up--I just wish you had let me know sooner than this afternoon as I was out of the building and didn't get your email until tonight.
(18:01:32) lauram: Paula, Please also send to the staff listserv instead of one instructor, one of the rest of us could have responded if we had seen the message. Thanks.
(18:00:24) sgatz: I think we are waiting for Lynn and Julie. Julie Williams, is Julie C coming?
(18:00:56) jmac3412: yes, I talked to her before i left school
(18:01:17) sgatz: Good--then she should be arriving soon.
(18:01:26) sgatz: Let's go ahead and get started. . .
(18:01:48) ppeterso: Okay.
(18:01:57) sgatz: Tonight we want to talk about student direction and how you are seeing it in your projects. .
(18:02:07) sgatz: Let's be positive first--what is working well?
(18:02:25) ppeterso: The interaction my students are having with one another
(18:02:44) jlohfink [jlohfink@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:02:45) jmac3412: everything except for the computers...or lack there of... ;)
(18:03:09) ppeterso: The types of questions they are asking each other--show higher level of thinking
(18:03:15) lhouf [lhouf@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:03:29) sgatz: Good Paula, that is great. How are the kids exhibiting student direction?
(18:03:55) ppeterso: They ask if they can get in a group and discuss what direction they need to take as a group
(18:04:19) sgatz: Good--that is a big step for primary students. . .
(18:04:30) ppeterso: I am amazed at what they are interested in learning
(18:04:40) sgatz: What are the rest of you noticing as far as Student Direction?
(18:05:52) sgatz: If you are not notiing anything, then what can you do to add more students direction in your project?
(18:05:53) lhouf: my students are doing a great job of thinking up their own questions and topics to research. They also thought of so many ways they could do their research and find all of their answers
(18:06:05) jmac3412: so far my students are interested in everything...it is really neat to watch the connections they are making. they are recognizing authors we are studying and others they are interested in and how one author usually has a style that is similar in many of their books.
(18:06:27) sgatz: Great! That was what you had hoped third graders could do, Lynn.
(18:06:36) lhouf: exactly
(18:06:39) sgatz: Julie--it sounds like they are learning more than you dreamed!
(18:06:56) jmac3412: they are also asking many questions, and although they are unable to read the answers that are explained on the websites they are inferring their own answers...they are thinking!
(18:07:06) ppeterso: During the next couple of days my students will be writing questions they still have that might be answered when we go on our Field Trip to JFK this Thurs.
(18:07:50) sgatz: Paula, it sounds like they are off to a good start and are exploring. Everyone, , .As you have started your projects, can you think of something you might want to do differently to allow more student irection?
(18:08:03) sgatz: direction, that is!
(18:08:25) jlohfink left the room.
(18:08:36) juliec [jcantafi@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:09:06) sgatz: Hi, Julie. . . We are talking about student direction in our projects. What are you seeing that your students are doing to model student direction?
(18:09:19) lhouf: We have gotten a pretty slow start in the project as a whole, but so far I don't think I would do anything different. The students are doing a great job of planning the project themselves and really coming up with awesome solutions and starting questions.
(18:09:36) sgatz: Are they surprising you Lynn?
(18:10:03) lhouf: yes, they are thinking of more ideas than I did!
(18:10:32) sgatz: That is very typical because we try to think of the answer and they think of the possibilities.
(18:10:35) jmac3412: I don't think I would do anything differently, I just think that I will have a better idea of what to expect next time...I think I was just overwhelmed with the openness of it all, and I feel that I have a better grasp for what to expect out of a situation like this
(18:10:58) sgatz: Are you less frightened of the openness?
(18:12:23) jmac3412: yes, it was just all so different for me...grade level especially made it difficult for me to imagine the results from such an open-ended project
(18:12:36) juliec: my students have been using what we have practiced in other areas in their small groups
(18:13:06) sgatz: Great way to integrate the curriculum
(18:13:10) juliec: I have heard them using collaboration strategies and roles to help guide their groups
(18:14:04) sgatz: Great--because this is a life skill and the sooner we share it with the kids, the better. What did you do that you wished you had not done?
(18:15:14) lhouf left the room (Logged out).
(18:15:32) lhouf [lhouf@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:15:32) juliec: One thing I am realizing is that overall, I think we have too many authors preassigned for the students, and not enough time for the scope of this class (linc)
(18:16:16) juliec: Maybe we could have asked the students what authors they wanted to choose to study(from our web site), and only focused on those
(18:16:41) sgatz: Do they all have to know every author? Can groups teach each other with each being an expert on a differnt set of authors? Julie--that would be a great way to demonstrate student direction--letting them make the choices.
(18:17:07) juliec: Great idea! No, they don't have to know every author...
(18:17:18) juliec: what I mean is that to get them truly engaged, they have to know...
(18:17:30) jmac3412: each student will be an "expert" on one author and then the students will present to the rest of the class
(18:17:33) juliec: a bit about the authors to really WANT to know more...
(18:17:45) juliec: and I feel there are too many choices right now
(18:18:07) sgatz: So you are thinking that you wouldnt list as many authors to investigate.
(18:18:18) juliec: Yes or perhaps...
(18:18:19) jmac3412: i feel the same way too...it's a little overwhelming and the students have a lot to explore...
(18:18:23) juliec: do things differently...
(18:18:30) jmac3412: that may be why it is taking so long to get through this project
(18:18:35) juliec: let the students choose author study groups and...
(18:18:47) juliec: create a web site using what they chose.
(18:18:59) ppeterso: I think limiting the amount of choices is difficult because my children have so many ideas they want to explore
(18:19:31) sgatz: If you are a perfectionist, you will never get done!
(18:19:37) ppeterso: thats for sure
(18:19:44) sgatz: But, it is exciting to see them leading the learning, I bet!
(18:19:49) juliec: I don't mean that I will limit their chosen course of study, just the authors
(18:20:14) sgatz: How are you guiding the kids without telling them what to do?
(18:20:47) lhouf: I think I would maybe plan a little less of the specific direction of the project until I had introduced the hook because they went in a slightly different direction and I wasn't prepared.
(18:21:05) ppeterso: I may start with a prompt of some kind and ask my children what it makes them think of
(18:21:27) lhouf: Well, I was prepared but just not exactly for where the students were going.
(18:21:29) ppeterso: Then we generate questions and / or cluster the ideas
(18:21:34) juliec: When they come up with an area they are interested in, I help them research that area and let them make the decision as to whether or not they want to include it in their project
(18:21:49) lhouf: me too, that's good Julie
(18:22:10) juliec: Lynn, how did your students go in a different direction?
(18:22:52) lhouf: I had planned the project to research a habitat, but students went way more into the actual animal than I thought they would.
(18:23:19) juliec: That's interesting! Has it been wonderful watching them "engage?"
(18:23:31) lhouf: It's fine, because they will have to reserach the habitat of the animal so it will still get in.
(18:23:38) sgatz: So the next time you try this project you might want to be more open and not restricted to a habitat.
(18:23:41) lhouf: It's fun
(18:24:11) sgatz: Were the students able to create a plan to guide their investigations?
(18:24:34) lhouf: Yes, they really thought of a variety of avenues to do their research
(18:24:40) juliec: My students have been talking it through in their small groups and
(18:24:52) ppeterso: yes,
(18:25:10) juliec: I help them by stating back to them what they have told me their plan is.
(18:25:39) jmac3412: my students have as well, i think that the collaboration in groups has helped them
(18:25:42) juliec: We have been talking about "how to make a plan" since the beginning of the year, so this procedure is becoming natural for them
(18:26:00) sgatz: Good--did they come up with the ideas easily, or were they waiting for your direction. You know, like it or not, that is the way we train them. WE have to retrain ourselves to wait and let them lead.
(18:26:20) lhouf: And they created good plans to begin their group reserach. Some of them assigned specific jobs, some are doing whole group research, and they all have a plan of how they are going to go about the research.
(18:26:26) ppeterso: My children are used to being in small groups and guiding their learning because I have been doing it since the beginning of the year in science, soc. studies and reading
(18:26:32) juliec: They have been great at coming up with ideas...but that is something I foster from the beginning of the year
(18:26:58) ppeterso: I find clustering ideas helps them organize their thoughts
(18:27:20) jmac3412: my students seem to want to take the lead naturally...it carries over in other areas as well, i read a book and want to talk about connections to it and they want to infer...i try and let them take me on a learning adventure!
(18:27:20) juliec: Great thought, Paula. What do you mean by clustering?
(18:27:50) ppeterso: The graphic organizer
(18:28:08) ppeterso: Start with a main idea and then list supporting ideas
(18:28:14) juliec: Yes, I agree, that is a great tool for first grade
(18:28:25) sgatz: I am excited to hear that you all are opening the doors for them to lead their learning. You know, once they taste it, they will expect it again!
(18:28:30) ppeterso: Sometimes we just list similiar ideas together
(18:28:54) ppeterso: That helps us lose the information that isn't as important
(18:29:27) sgatz: What formal/tool are they selecting to hsare thier learning with the designated audience?
(18:29:48) ppeterso: Is this question for me
(18:30:18) sgatz: It is a question for everyone.
(18:30:20) juliec: So far, many of my students have talked about a presentation of some sorts. They have said they want to have the principal into class and have her come to each group to hear what they know.
(18:30:42) juliec: They haven't gotten into the details of that yet
(18:30:54) ppeterso: My students are beginning to list what is nutritious and fun to eat--
(18:30:54) sgatz: She was part of the hook, correct? That makes sense as a big idea.
(18:30:56) lhouf: My students came up with a great list of a journal, poster, web site, powerpoint, write a paper, etc.
(18:31:11) juliec: That's a great idea, Lynn, to make a list...
(18:31:24) juliec: I think I will use that tool next so they can hear each other's thoughts.
(18:31:35) sgatz: Good, Lynn. They are getting to make choices so you don't have 25 of the same thing.
(18:31:37) ppeterso: We are making lists using the food groups of favorites
(18:31:38) jmac3412: my students are still immersed in the research portion and haven't finished sorting through the information they are finding
(18:31:41) lhouf: I was impressed with what they thought of
(18:32:10) sgatz: Kids surprise me everyday. They have more knowledge and information that we give them credit for having.
(18:32:49) sgatz: Do any think you should revise the task and hook to allow for more student direction?
(18:32:56) lhouf: we haven't at all started the final project part, we just brainstormed the first day ways that we could share with the class what we learned after the students decided that we could vote on the pet.
(18:33:20) sgatz: So you have just launced the project, Lynn.
(18:33:21) ppeterso: We are putting everyhting in our science folders at this time and will decide down the road which information we will need to make the lunch replacement meals for the school district. THe class also decided that they want to use the information they are learning to make meals and snacks at home with and without grownups.
(18:33:33) juliec: Yes. I think I would give the students more input into the chosen course of study. Maybe it would branch into other directions too...
(18:33:46) lhouf: last week is when we started. We are starting to research in our groups now.
(18:33:50) juliec: maybe they would want to share other things with the principal besides just authors...
(18:34:03) ppeterso: My class is taking my original idea and expanding it to ideas I hadn't thought about
(18:34:04) juliec: or share with other classes or parents...who knows?
(18:34:07) lhouf: We had to do some background research first and then form groups last week.
(18:34:11) sgatz: That is a thought, julie C.
(18:34:35) jmac3412: that's true julie...i think that would be neat...i was thinking that later this year they could do some research for the kindergarteners to share their knowledge with them
(18:34:46) juliec: Hey, good idea
(18:34:55) ppeterso: Wow I bet the kindergartners would like that
(18:35:13) juliec: Maybe we should see if the Kindergartners could come up with some of it...like what THEY want to know
(18:35:21) jmac3412: YES!!!
(18:35:34) juliec: and the first graders could come up with answers, as well as some things THEY want to teach the Kinders
(18:35:42) ppeterso: Having taught kindergarten in the past I think you will be surprised how much kindergartners have on their minds
(18:35:51) jmac3412: let's talk to kindergarten later....maybe we can find some time to prep this
(18:36:00) juliec: We should talk more often, Julie W;)
(18:36:26) jmac3412: yeah...you're normally so far away!!! lol:-D
(18:36:33) sgatz: These ideas that you are sharing are great ideas to have in your Journal Reflections. You will refer to the reflecitons as you write your Future Action Plan and if you don't have the ideas written down somewhere, you will forget the key changes/revisions you will want to make.
(18:36:51) juliec: Sharon, see where you have taken us? Or...where you have let us take ourselves.:)
(18:37:05) sgatz: You bet! Just like the kids!
(18:37:06) ppeterso: Now we are engaged
(18:37:10) jmac3412: i didn't think about this extension until just now.
(18:37:21) juliec: Thanks for the journal reflection idea.
(18:37:23) sgatz: Write it in your reflections so you don't forget.
(18:37:37) jmac3412: i'm thinking that we need to take some time to think of other areas to apply this as well...
(18:37:52) sgatz: Is there anything that you are struggling with?
(18:38:03) jmac3412: julie i bet ss would lend itself very nicely to this..
(18:38:25) sgatz: Good idea, Julie. I bet it would fit in ss and science nicely.
(18:38:33) ppeterso: Not enough time to do it all
(18:38:34) juliec: As I said before...there just never seems to be enough time to fit everything in...
(18:38:53) juliec: next year, I would like to give this project more time, and perhaps a broader scope...
(18:39:10) juliec: as well as align it to standards and other curricular areas.
(18:39:23) jmac3412: time is never enough...that's what i've reflected on, the fact this is taking longer than i had anticipated
(18:39:25) ppeterso: Every time someone comes us with another idea to explore I add it, but realistically I won't be able to extend this forever
(18:39:38) sgatz: Are you thinking of integrating it into other content areas?
(18:40:01) juliec: Yes, I will definitely be looking into that aspect for future planning.
(18:40:25) ppeterso: Next year I want to start earlier and figure out a way that we can keep it going and still complete required curriculum
(18:40:37) sgatz: Last week we spent some time looking at rubrics. . . .
(18:40:42) ppeterso: I am going to have to think of a better way to integrate it all
(18:40:48) sgatz: Most of them were weak. . .
(18:41:05) sgatz: This week I want you to look at this rubric and tell me what you think about it. . .
(18:41:45) sgatz: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/lincon/act/examples/rubrics/nationalparks.doc
(18:42:00) sgatz: Let me know when you are there. . .
(18:42:18) juliec: I am there
(18:42:26) jmac3412: there
(18:42:36) lhouf: got it
(18:42:57) ppeterso: there
(18:43:06) sgatz: Take a look at it and let me know your thoughts.
(18:43:10) ppeterso: This rubric seems more precise than the others
(18:43:25) jmac3412: definitely
(18:43:58) ppeterso: I am not sure though if you can assess "independently" though
(18:44:19) sgatz: This class was a junior high class.
(18:45:06) ppeterso: Was this project all done in class?
(18:45:14) sgatz: Not all of it.
(18:45:28) juliec: I think this rubric is trying to assess too many things
(18:45:39) ppeterso: How do you know then who found the links --the student alone or with help
(18:46:06) sgatz: Are there categories for content, process, and product?
(18:46:45) ppeterso: yes
(18:46:51) juliec: Yes, there is
(18:47:15) jmac3412: the presentation piece seems to be very vague
(18:47:38) jmac3412: who decides what a fairly well rehearsed project looks like
(18:48:03) ppeterso: Were there any visual aids to go with the presentations?
(18:48:04) jmac3412: i could practice until i am blue in the face, but i may shake like a leaf and stutter my whol way through it
(18:48:08) sgatz: Who knows what 'fairly well' means?
(18:48:11) jmac3412: *whole
(18:48:21) ppeterso: This is subjective
(18:48:30) juliec: Yes, I agree
(18:48:39) jmac3412: and what about insightful questions...
(18:48:50) jmac3412: is there an explanation of what that looks like
(18:48:57) sgatz: So you are finding some things to fix here. It is pretty subjective and with only 3 categories, it is easy to pick the middle of the road.
(18:49:25) sgatz: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/lincon/act/examples/rubrics/anway_content.doc Take a look at this one
(18:49:30) juliec: That's true...about the 3 categories
(18:49:47) sgatz: I typed it wrong. wait a minute. . .
(18:49:57) sgatz: http://www-ed.fnal.gov/lincon/act/examples/rubrics/anwar_content.doc
(18:50:29) ppeterso: There.
(18:51:03) lhouf: sorry, I was gone for a minute! I'm there now.
(18:51:10) jmac3412: hold on./..computer freezing...trying to fix
(18:51:19) ppeterso: I'm not sure what this rubric is assessing
(18:51:40) sgatz: This rubric is for high school science and it is a content rubric. How does it compare with the other rubric that we checke out?
(18:51:45) ppeterso: Are the stakeholders the students or the world at large
(18:51:45) lhouf: Uh oh, I'm frozen too, hang on
(18:52:11) jmac3412: this page is taking a long time to load...am i the only one?
(18:52:23) sgatz: Take your time. . . we can wait.
(18:52:30) ppeterso: It is a very detailed rubric--I am having a hard time figuring out each one
(18:52:30) juliec: Me too...my computer has frozen and it won't load
(18:53:10) jmac3412: this page is not loading for me at all...i'm going to try again
(18:53:19) sgatz: If it is causing you to crash, don't worry about going there. Let's move on to our task.
(18:53:26) lhouf: I still can't get it either
(18:53:33) juliec: It's not loading at all for me either
(18:53:41) sgatz: On the assignment page you will see a link to a Journal Reflection Rubric. Go there.
(18:54:05) ppeterso: I'll wait until the others are on
(18:54:09) sgatz: It is the same rubric I emailed you this afternoon. Open either one of them.
(18:54:28) jmac3412: i think i have to restart...my computer is completely frozen besides for this chatting
(18:54:52) juliec: I can't seem to get rid of these other links...but I have the rubric in a hard copy I printed from my computer today. Is that okay?
(18:54:56) sgatz: I am sorry Julie, do what you need to do to function.
(18:55:06) sgatz: Yes--that is fine.
(18:55:13) jmac3412 left the room.
(18:56:06) lhouf: ok, I have it open
(18:57:15) sgatz: Okay--as you can see, it is not complete. The criteria in the column on the left are the objectives on the Journal Reflection assignment. So, we are trying to assess what we asked you to do.... literally!. . .
(18:57:55) sgatz: We need to look at the second criteria from the bottom of the page--the one that says, "REflections show an understanding of engaged learning through examples and/or anecdotess."
(18:58:28) sgatz: Our job--is to fill in the descriptors for 1, 2, 3, and 4 for this criteria. . .
(18:59:14) ppeterso: Are we still talking about the ANWR rubric
(18:59:28) sgatz: I would suggest that you start with the 4 description as that is the target you want students to meet. Then look at the works that might vary or have levels to them and create the other descriptors. I would suggest that you select one recorder to send me your final product.
(18:59:41) sgatz: No Paula--can you see my entries above?
(19:00:07) ppeterso: Yes, you are talking about the reflections and the ideas we wrote before for rubrics right
(19:01:33) Julie W [jmac3412@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:01:55) Julie W: okay, i'm going to try and catch up...
(19:02:53) juliec: Number four could read...every reflection shows an understanding of engaged learning through use of examples or antecdotes.
(19:03:27) sgatz: Pick a recorder to send me your descriptions.
(19:03:42) lhouf: I can record again
(19:03:48) ppeterso: Thank you
(19:04:05) juliec: THANK YOU LYNN!
(19:04:09) Julie W: thanks...
(19:04:18) ppeterso: Number three could be most reflections...
(19:04:26) ppeterso: or should we use a number
(19:04:48) juliec: We could use a number for number 3.
(19:05:20) lhouf: should we do 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 like in the example
(19:05:35) juliec: That works for me
(19:05:49) lhouf: or should we say something about the understanding part?
(19:05:50) ppeterso: that's fine
(19:06:11) ppeterso: don't we have to be careful about using the word understanding
(19:06:16) Julie W left the room.
(19:06:17) ppeterso: How do we measure that
(19:06:59) Julie W [jmac3412@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:07:00) juliec: I think it depends on what we are trying to measure. Ability to document engaged learning through examples or
"understanding."

(19:07:12) lhouf: right, but are we measuring that the concept of engaged learning is understood or that it is written about using examples? Which are we assessing?
(19:07:20) lhouf: Julie, we're thinking the same!
(19:07:48) Julie W: i'm thinking that too
(19:08:03) juliec: Sharon, any input?
(19:08:36) sgatz: What would the reflections have to include for me to know and see that you understand engaged learning?
(19:09:01) juliec: Examples, I suppose.
(19:09:06) ppeterso: by some products that show the students thinking
(19:09:11) sgatz: How would I see student direciton in your journals?
(19:10:12) ppeterso: By looking at the hook and how students went from there
(19:10:23) lhouf: by using examples and anecdotes
(19:10:29) juliec: Antecdotes, I suppose :)
(19:10:32) Julie W: through specific examples of student dialouge and/or student work
(19:10:43) sgatz: Yes--that would make it clearer Lynn, Julie, and Julie.
(19:11:03) juliec: So then, is it a good idea to assess this by quantifying examples and antecdotes?
(19:11:17) ppeterso: would ou use student product
(19:12:00) sgatz: Are you saying that the kids will get to choose how to create their product and what vehicle to use?
(19:12:14) ppeterso: yes
(19:12:37) sgatz: That would be what I would look for in a journal so how can you capture that in the target?
(19:13:11) ppeterso: By showing the path the students took throughout the process
(19:13:11) juliec: How else can we be objective when assessing terms like "understanding?" Don't we have to quantify?
(19:13:37) lhouf: I think we could quantify examples and anecdotes and through those be able to see and assess understanding and student products
(19:13:44) ppeterso: I am worried about putting too many ideas to assess in the rubric
(19:13:52) sgatz: I see what you are saying---understanding doesn't work there. How shall I change it?
(19:13:56) juliec: I agree, Lynn.
(19:14:33) sgatz: Should it just say, Reflections show engaged learning through examples and/or anecdotes?
(19:14:42) ppeterso: I like that
(19:15:08) juliec: We could, in essence, quantify each area that is to be assessed just like the example at the top.
(19:15:21) lhouf: that's what I was thinking
(19:15:21) juliec: I like that too, Sharon.
(19:16:29) juliec: Although, truth be told, quantity doesn't always show understanding. Some people can use 1 really well-written/thought out example that is better than another person's 4 examples.
(19:16:48) juliec: But, I suppose for the purpose of objectivity, quantity is the way to go
(19:17:42) lhouf: I agree, Julie, but I think if we just say in each entry, rather than really numbers it would work
(19:18:10) lhouf: In each entry we will have new classroom experiences to give examples and anecdotes from
(19:18:22) juliec: That's true.
(19:19:16) juliec: So, a 4 would then be "Every reflection shows engaged learning through examples/antecdotes." ?
(19:19:26) Julie W: i don't think that i gave specific examples in my first two entries, but i will from now on!!
(19:20:10) juliec: And a 3 would then be "3/4 of the reflections show engaged learning through examples/antecdotes" ?
(19:20:17) Julie W: did my last comment post?
(19:20:39) juliec: And a 2 would then be "1/2 of the reflections show engaged learning through examples/antecdores" ?
(19:20:45) juliec: Yes, Julie, it did
(19:21:34) juliec: And a 1 would then be 1/4 of the reflections show engaged learning through examples/antecdotes." ? How does that sit with everyone?
(19:21:42) lhouf: fine with me
(19:22:29) juliec: Anyone else have anything to add?
(19:22:30) ppeterso: sounds good
(19:22:56) Julie W: nothing to add here
(19:23:25) juliec: Okay, then, Lynn, can you please record that and send it to sharon? Thanks!
(19:23:36) sgatz: As you look at your work, is it an equal step between each description so that one doesn't require a bigger jump that the other?
(19:23:58) lhouf: yes
(19:24:02) Julie W: thanks lynn!
(19:24:04) juliec: Yes, it is 1/4 step between each description, isn't it?
(19:24:16) ppeterso: Thank you for all your work lynn
(19:24:20) sgatz: Okay--I was just probing.
(19:24:35) lhouf: no problem!
(19:24:38) sgatz: Does the #4 criteria describe what you want the target to be?
(19:25:49) sgatz: Don'e me scare you, I am just asking?
(19:25:50) lhouf: I think so
(19:26:07) juliec: I think it does. Do we want to qualify here..."Every reflection shows engaged learning through relevant examples/antecdotes." ?????
(19:26:38) juliec: We could add "relevant" to each area.
(19:26:42) juliec: Any thoughts?
(19:26:50) lhouf: sure
(19:27:46) ppeterso: The examples
(19:28:53) juliec: Paula, I am not sure what you mean by "the examples."
(19:30:09) ppeterso: Are the anecodotes and examples where we are using the word relevant
(19:30:58) juliec: Yes. The entire sentence is typed above.
(19:31:42) ppeterso: Sorry, had a senior moment
(19:32:01) sgatz: That is allowed. . . the chats move quickly.
(19:32:11) sgatz: Does anyone have a question about what you have created?
(19:32:29) juliec: No. I'm good
(19:32:46) Julie W: fine here
(19:32:54) ppeterso: I'm fine now
(19:33:15) sgatz: Our job now is to tweak and and make sure that all the descriptors 'flow and align.' We will have it ready for you to see before our next chat.
(19:33:22) sgatz: Do you have any questions for me?
(19:33:31) ppeterso: Thank you for all of your help
(19:33:38) juliec: Not right now, thanks!
(19:33:38) lhouf: not right now.
(19:34:56) sgatz: Okay--then in a few minutes I would like you to go to the Chat Schedule---hit Shift and Refresh--and you will see what room and breakout group you will go to. You can go to the Chat Schedule now, but don't go to the new room yet as the other groups are still chatting. I will tell you when to move rooms.
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(19:37:19) sgatz: In one or two minutes we will begin to shift to the new room. If you are staying here, enjoy!
(19:37:45) sgatz: Go ahead and move to the new room. Does everyone know where to go?
(19:37:47) lhouf: thanks Sharon!
(19:37:55) sgatz: Lynn-room 1
(19:38:02) sgatz: Julie and Julie stay here
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(19:38:10) sgatz: Paula moves to room 3
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(19:38:19) sgatz: I am moving to room 4
(19:38:30) sgatz: Thanks for your collaborative work tonight!
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(19:39:13) juliec: Okay, I'm here
(19:39:13) smeehan [smeehan@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim-work-2] entered the room.
(19:39:17) smeehan: Hello
(19:39:28) bfolan: hello
(19:39:28) juliec: Hello
(19:39:33) aturkot: hello
(19:39:41) rbernste: hi there long time no see
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(19:39:48) smeehan: I am here in room two and we will be talking about Tech integration in the Primary grades.
(19:39:49) lhopkins [lhopkins@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:39:53) Julie W: hrllo
(19:39:57) Julie W: hello
(19:40:08) smeehan: Rachel I think you should be in room 5
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(19:40:25) rbernste: fine bye
(19:40:28) smeehan: Barb and Megan I think you are in room 5 also.
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(19:40:41) mgarrity: is that the tech. room?
(19:40:59) bfolan: I picked tech too?
(19:41:03) smeehan: Julie C. and Julie W. Amy T. and Luann should be in room 2
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(19:41:26) smeehan: Barb I think they palced you in a tech room but it is number 5
(19:41:41) smeehan: Hello,
(19:41:48) aturkot: hello again
(19:41:57) lhopkins: hello
(19:42:02) Julie W: hi
(19:42:02) juliec: Hola
(19:42:15) smeehan: So I saw your posting on plone and discussed the need for tech with primary age studenst
(19:42:49) smeehan: What would you say is the greatest tech challenge for the little guys?
(19:43:09) Julie W: finding material they can read!
(19:43:13) aturkot: ability to read and following directions... they want to get right in and press every button
(19:43:16) juliec: One challenge is their lack of tech skills
(19:43:36) juliec: And another is their inability to read much of the info out there on the web
(19:43:38) lhopkins: typing info after researching. have 5th grade
(19:43:58) smeehan: I know literacy is such a big hurdle for them.
(19:44:02) lhopkins: finding material they can read is hard also
(19:44:18) smeehan: Luann what were you typing about 5th grade?
(19:44:58) lhopkins: My kids can follow directions, it just takes us a long time to type our data into a program
(19:45:27) lhopkins: for instance Excel or word
(19:45:50) smeehan: Julie have you found material your kids can read, or what have you done?
(19:46:27) Julie W: i have had them learning how to navigate websites and looking at the information, the students are picking out words they know how to read...
(19:46:34) juliec: Well, one thing we have done is having our students buddy up with 4th grade students, but the fourth grade is not always available when we need them.
(19:46:55) lhopkins: I think buddying low readers with high readers in my class may work
(19:47:06) juliec: They have been practicing navigating the web sites and I try to lead them to places on the sites that are easier reading
(19:47:08) Julie W: i am thinking about getting the groups who are researching the same topic gather around my computer and have them tell me what to click and then i can read it to them...
(19:47:17) smeehan: I really like the buddy idea.
(19:47:21) juliec: That's a good idea, Julie
(19:47:24) Julie W: but then i have the problem of 18-20 other students with nothing to do
(19:47:33) smeehan: We need to get software that can read aloud to them
(19:47:45) Julie W: i liked the buddy idea too...but it's hard to coordinate
(19:47:48) lhopkins: That would be great
(19:47:54) juliec: Yes. That would be great!
(19:47:55) aturkot: enchantedlearning.com has some great info
(19:47:55) Julie W: i was reflecting about that the today
(19:48:03) juliec: Thanks, Amy
(19:48:12) smeehan: Have you found websites that you could revise and repost in kid friendly language?
(19:48:20) aturkot: it is a little easier for them to read... and there are a lot of pictures
(19:48:33) juliec: That's a good idea too. Revising and reposting.
(19:48:37) Julie W: i may talk to the principal to see if we can get that program too, but i haven't been able to get her to purchase other tech things i was looking at...
(19:49:05) Julie W: that was something else i have thought of, but the only problem we have is..
(19:49:11) smeehan: Do any of you have united streaming availalbel in your schools, it is online video.
(19:49:17) lhopkins: yes
(19:49:22) juliec: I'm not sure.
(19:49:33) aturkot: I think that we still do
(19:49:37) smeehan: Luann how have you used the video?
(19:49:38) Julie W: that we are trying to get the students to lead the learning...if we go through and revise the websites we may eliminate some of the info they want.
(19:49:48) lhopkins: yes, in the past, but not yet this year
(19:49:53) juliec: What is united streaming?
(19:50:13) smeehan: Julie W. you raise a good point there is no way you can anticipate their every move.
(19:50:38) lhopkins: It is website that has tons of videos that you can download and show your students about differernt topics...
(19:50:50) aturkot: I arranged for parent volunteers to come in and help
(19:50:53) juliec: Oh, cool.
(19:51:02) lhopkins: You can show several seconds up to many minutes to help your students learn about something...
(19:51:03) smeehan: Unitedstreaming is a website that offers educational videos, so rather than searching and seeing webpages they search and see 1, 2, and 3 minute videos
(19:51:11) lhopkins: or give them background knowledge.
(19:51:17) juliec: Does U46 have access? Does anyone know?
(19:51:33) aturkot: I think individual schools had to have it
(19:51:36) smeehan: The background info is so powerful, it helps all students
(19:51:41) juliec: I like the parent idea, too. Thanks!
(19:51:45) lhopkins: I don't know if all schools in U46 have access, but you could email Janine Shelly
(19:51:50) Julie W: i think i've heard of it...but had not known what it was
(19:52:19) juliec: Thanks, I will email Janine Shelly
(19:52:29) juliec: :)
(19:52:43) smeehan: So maybe a combination of parent, older student readers, a little revising and posting and perhaps some video if you could fincd it.
(19:52:58) lhopkins: All good suggestions
(19:53:02) Julie W: that might work
(19:53:06) juliec: Ditto
(19:53:16) Julie W: trial and error...:-P
(19:53:23) aturkot: does anyone know of any other primary web sites to try out?
(19:53:25) smeehan: What about pictures, are there good picture sites, They say they are worth a 1000 words, do you think it is true?:)
(19:53:58) aturkot: I agree with pictures.. they can get a lot of details from pictures
(19:54:01) juliec: Yes, it probably is true. But what good picture sites are out there? I suppose I could research that on my own.
(19:54:10) Julie W: i think my students have been able to see the style an author has based on the pictures they see about those authors
(19:54:53) Julie W: i also like the idea that the students have to infer if they can't read, which can be a bad thing if they are researching for the purpose of informing others??
(19:54:54) lhopkins: Some schools can go to google.com and click on images
(19:55:03) smeehan: In google you can search just for images and you could force it to give you ictures just from gov, or edu sites. I still would want to be careful aboiut it.
(19:55:18) aturkot: even in some to the books that I have about the community topic in my room kids have found some great sites to go and look at
(19:55:20) juliec: Sorry, Amy, my website scope is limited. What is your project about?
(19:55:35) aturkot: communites around the world
(19:56:20) lhopkins: the Smithsonian has a picture website also for different topics
(19:56:26) juliec: Oh. I seem to remember that kirstin, from our class, was looking for sites with this same topic
(19:56:39) aturkot: so does weekly reader, scholastic and Time for Kids online
(19:56:46) juliec: Maybe you could ask her next chat session
(19:57:19) smeehan: Our school uses Scholastic keys which is a primary word processor, if the kids opaste tect onto their page it will read to them, do you have anything like this in your schools?
(19:57:40) juliec: Not that I know of
(19:57:48) aturkot: I don't think so
(19:57:56) lhopkins: No
(19:58:06) Julie W: no we don't, do you know how expensive a program like that costs?
(19:58:16) Julie W: how easy is it for little fingers to use?
(19:59:30) smeehan: It is not that expensive but it really is an add on to word so you have to have that first. All they need to do is cut and paste. For some kids no big deal, for others ...well you know.
(20:00:35) Julie W: i'm looking it up online...is it by tom snyder productions...formerly max's samdbox??
(20:00:45) smeehan: That is it.
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(20:01:30) smeehan: What other ideas do we have, or what other issues should we discuss?
(20:01:41) Julie W: it seems like it also helps with word, powerpoint, and excel, is that correct?
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(20:02:14) aturkot: I really like Kidsperation for my students.... we used it today whole group
(20:02:34) smeehan: That is excellect software.
(20:02:38) aturkot: but it is great beause it will take the web they make and put it into an outline or notes for them
(20:02:43) juliec: I like all the ideas we have come up with thus far. I'm sorry I can't be of more help to others in the group
(20:02:58) aturkot: helps with presentation... it also has pictures...
(20:03:04) juliec: I like the Kidspiration program. I forgot how useful that can be to organize thoughts
(20:03:12) aturkot: and for presentations... Kid Pix is good too... more simple than power point
(20:03:26) juliec: Thanks, Amy
(20:04:02) smeehan: I like the problem solving that they most go through to develop a presenattion of what they have learned. It is all about organizing and classifying
(20:04:22) smeehan: Real high end thinking.
(20:04:48) juliec: True
(20:04:58) aturkot: it also shows what they really got from the project
(20:05:00) smeehan: Do kids in the primary grades work best alone or with pairs on this type of work.
(20:05:10) aturkot: groups in my experience
(20:05:22) lhopkins: works best with partners for 5th graders
(20:05:40) juliec: Small groups of 4-5 in my opinion (first grade)
(20:05:55) Julie W: it seems that they need to all be able to try it on their own, but to do the work and research small groups
(20:06:17) smeehan: I think the discussion about what they wanbt to do is almost always the real learning from the experience.
(20:06:30) Julie W: otherwise they can fight over who clicks the buttons and they all want to try it too
(20:06:34) smeehan: I agree that the chance to experiment is critical.
(20:06:57) smeehan: Do you build that play or investigate time into the projects they do? How do you handle that?
(20:07:04) juliec: Yes. And learning how to learn...how to go through the planning process, the group process, the research process, etc...
(20:07:47) aturkot: we do paint on the computer at the beginning of the year for mouse control... and then move on to pairs and then larger goups... it seems to work for me
(20:07:56) Julie W: I let them experience it on their own first, as part of the project...right now they have been navigating sites independently, but to find information i will incorporate group time as well
(20:08:28) juliec: At first grade, they DO need to "play" or experiment before they do work with materials or else they will want to do that while you are trying to guide work. I let them experience on their own first and then work together as a group.
(20:09:20) smeehan: 1st grade and 5th grade
(20:09:24) Julie W: i want everyone to try it...coming from third grade i know that i had my students researching mostly independently, and i want my current students to be comfortable moving and trying things independently so that in the future they will get more comfortable
(20:09:37) Julie W: when they get older
(20:09:45) smeehan: Do you give them the task to investigate or do they do this while doing another task?
(20:10:19) aturkot: I have then do a web quest... one that I set up... pretty easy but gets them used to navigating
(20:10:47) smeehan: I always like to show 1st and 2nd graders a few buttons and tell them to find out and tell me abou thte others.
(20:11:06) lhopkins: I do the same as Amy, we do a webquest from Time for Kids together and then I turn them loose when they are ready.
(20:11:07) Julie W: right now they are so interested in finding out everything they can that they don't neccessarily have a task but to see what they can find
(20:11:24) smeehan: That way they learn and share and remember more than if I talk at them.
(20:11:25) Julie W: that is similar to what i did, show them some of the links and let them explore the others
(20:11:49) juliec: I showed them some links and le them explore others too.
(20:11:55) smeehan: Searching is a little different so I think having your website is the best plan.
(20:12:26) smeehan: After all they need to learn a little web safety along the way.
(20:13:32) smeehan: Well we are just about out of time, but I do want to thank you for this discussion. I do know that technology is still a tool for the literacy savy user.
(20:13:46) Julie W: i talked about how i set up this website for them to use and if they get somewhere else to let me know and i'll help them...but honestly, our computers are so locked down that we don't have to worry about it...i can't even bring up things i use for my instruction!!!
(20:13:53) juliec: Thank you, everyone for suggestions and discussion
(20:13:58) Julie W: thanks everyone!
(20:14:06) lhopkins: Thanks
(20:14:13) aturkot: thanks
(20:14:15) juliec: Goodnight all
(20:14:19) lhopkins: See you next week
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(20:14:35) smeehan: I hope you have a good week, find out if you have United Streaming if you do I think you will really like it.
(20:14:37) smeehan: Bye
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