Conversation with linc4@conference.fnal.gov at 2005-10-24 17:49:25 on lauram@jabber.fnal.gov/gaim-work-2 (jabber)
(17:49:25) lauram [lauram@jabber.fnal.gov/gaim-work-2] entered the room.
(17:49:25) linc4
(17:49:25) bfolan [bfolan@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:52:14) smeehan [smeehan@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim-work-2] entered the room.
(17:52:45) smeehan: Hello Barb, you are always the early bird:)
(17:53:09) bfolan: Hi Stephen
(17:53:36) bfolan: I always log in early so I make sure it works.
(17:57:13) jschwarz [jschwarz@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:57:28) smeehan: Hello Justine?
(17:57:42) jschwarz: hi...
(17:57:51) bfolan: hello
(17:58:20) spiltave [spiltave@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:58:35) bfolan: hi sue:-P
(17:58:52) spiltave: Hi, Barb:)
(17:58:58) sgatz [sgatz@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:59:00) efishman [efishman@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(17:59:03) smeehan: Hello Sue, thanks for the email today. I haven't yet been on plone to see your posting.
(17:59:36) efishman: Hello everyone
(17:59:44) bfolan: hello
(17:59:45) smeehan: Hello Ellen
(17:59:50) spiltave: Your e-mail was at about 4:00 I think. I worked on it earlier in the day. I am surprised you didn't see it. I hope I did it right.
(18:00:14) smeehan: Almost everyone here except for Rachel and Megan
(18:00:52) bfolan: They are on their way
(18:03:39) smeehan: Tonight we are talking about Student direction among other things. Has everyone started their projects already.
(18:03:46) bfolan: yes
(18:03:53) efishman: yes
(18:04:03) jschwarz: no, next week.
(18:04:39) rbernste [rbernste@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:04:50) spiltave: this week for sure
(18:04:55) smeehan: Hello rachel
(18:05:11) mgarrity [mgarrity@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(18:05:18) smeehan: Well for those who have already started ...
(18:05:27) rbernste: Howdie
(18:05:33) mgarrity: hi
(18:05:42) smeehan: What is working well with student direction in your project so far?
(18:06:14) bfolan: I took your advice from last week...
(18:06:26) bfolan: I broke up the groups according to their choice...
(18:06:40) bfolan: I gave them their top 2 choices...
(18:07:14) bfolan: this way I can put groups together who will complement each other without them even knowing it...
(18:07:38) rbernste: We are also having issues but it is more the fact that the students are not familiar with searching on the computers. I am trying to work on that before we get to detailed
(18:07:42) bfolan: we created our rubric today as well so they knew how they would be graded...
(18:07:49) efishman: The students took the letter(hook) from the principal in directions that were not weather related as I wanted. However since they have to prove these suggestions as reasonable and viable solutions , that in itself will be worthwhile.
(18:08:08) bfolan: i was surprised at how they were able to do this...
(18:08:46) bfolan: we are in the beginning stages so direction will be used more this week because they have a rubric and groups...
(18:08:58) efishman: I should add though that they also went in directions all on their own that work into the project like icing onto cake.
(18:09:02) bfolan: one problem is that our website does not work consistently...
(18:09:22) mgarrity: Unfortunately, we are having issues accessing our project. Our tech. people are looking into it. My students were able to get into the project last week, and think about which pollution they wanted to create an action plan for. We will form groups tomorrow, and I am hoping we can investigate the project this week.
(18:09:24) bfolan: Sue -our tech hero is helping out. SHe's the best.
(18:09:45) rbernste: Yes she is ....stroke stroke
(18:09:59) spiltave: I'm trying! It works for me, so I have to isolate the problem.
(18:10:05) smeehan: Barb it does sound like your students are taking charge of their task. Please let me remind people to respect the ... as meaning the person is still speaking.
(18:10:41) smeehan: Sue how have you been supporting Barb's class?
(18:11:19) spiltave: I haven't really worked with Barb's class.
(18:11:47) smeehan: I am sorry I got confused you have been working with rachel?
(18:11:47) bfolan: Sue is who we run to when we have tech problems.
(18:11:57) spiltave: I have been trying to get the website functioning for all classes.
(18:12:09) smeehan: Okay thatnks.:)
(18:12:13) smeehan: thanks
(18:12:33) spiltave: As I said. I have no problems. So I am trying to figure out why they are having problems.
(18:12:47) smeehan: Ellen, tell us about how students went were you did not expect?
(18:13:49) efishman: Well the problem is what to do about indoor recess being called too late and impacting others. The students are tryinbg to solve the space issue without having weather as the factor.
(18:14:27) smeehan: Interesting, lots of student direction, not much weather. How are you going to facilitate this?
(18:15:32) efishman: The students have to create an advertisement advertising their specific solution. If the solution is not viable that no one will be willing to join their group to investigate that solution.
(18:16:16) smeehan: So they actually have to propose an investigation first. That should help them in the planning phases.
(18:16:35) smeehan: How will you bring weather back inbto the possible research.
(18:16:48) smeehan: That is a question, sorry.
(18:16:51) efishman: Yes, because we have limited resources and support and we need each others help.
(18:17:04) smeehan: I like that idea.
(18:17:13) efishman: There were a few solutions haveing to do with weather prediction.
(18:17:24) smeehan: Rachel fill us in on your students self direction
(18:18:10) rbernste: Self direction is kind of a problem for these kids.
(18:18:36) rbernste: They are really needy and need a lot of teacher direction. I am trying to cut the cord but it is difficult
(18:19:18) smeehan: what have you tried?
(18:19:28) spiltave: Rachel teaches 4th grade and all 4th graders are new to our school.
(18:19:56) spiltave: It takes a while to get them used to our school's climate and culture.
(18:20:13) smeehan: So not much project work in their back ground.
(18:20:16) rbernste: I tried having them choose their own destination for the NASA project however we took 45min discussing what NASA was and then they forgot what the task was
(18:20:56) rbernste: They are concerned about what planet to choose and they want it chosen for them but I told them that is part of the assisgnment
(18:22:00) smeehan: Do you have a plan to give them some experence or is this project the practice?
(18:22:39) rbernste: Experience for what???? Choosing a topic? They should be able to do that! Don't you think?
(18:23:01) rbernste: I am sorry I am just frustrated with them today!!!!
(18:23:06) smeehan: Being self directed, throughout a project
(18:23:07) jschwarz: depends on past teachers' teaching styles
(18:23:56) smeehan: If they have little experience they will have trouble as you are experiencing.
(18:24:34) smeehan: This is the first big project I am assuming so becoming independent learners would be a worthwhile goal for the project.
(18:24:40) rbernste: No as third graders they were not really self directed until now because we have few teachers in this program. I am curious to see what their experiences are?
(18:25:26) rbernste: I am trying to make them more independed in many areas not just this project. I have a student who just learned to tie his shoes!!!
(18:26:29) smeehan: So, what do you think is the most significant task they need to learn to become more independent?
(18:27:05) rbernste: I really want them to choose their own topic or location. I want them to be interested in it! I don't want to be telling them what they have to do
(18:27:18) spiltave: I think they wait fro learning to come at them. I think they need to learn that they have some control over what they learn.
(18:28:20) smeehan: Do you think that they really didn't know about Nasa, or were they just dragging their feet in selecting. If they really didn't know then maybe they did need to get more background info. What do you think?
(18:28:50) rbernste: I agree totally. This is not a dig on their teachers from last year but being a third grader was different for them because they were at a very primary school. Now they come to our school and are expected to be independent
(18:29:00) rbernste: I really think they didn't know!
(18:29:40) spiltave: Many of our students are ESL and born in other countries. It is possible that they don't know.
(18:29:46) smeehan: Does anyone have suggestions for how Rachel could help her students develop better skills?
(18:29:47) rbernste: I agree we need more background and I am trying to do that while also having them start the project. I am wondering if I should give them the assingment
(18:30:38) spiltave: I would. Think big start small. They could learn to do internet project work on this assignment.
(18:30:46) smeehan: Rachel you have started, so I would not backout. This can still be the driving force to learn more about Nasa and the solar system.
(18:31:22) rbernste: No! I am definitly backing out I am just wondering if I should assing planets to them?
(18:31:22) jschwarz: take baby steps and they'll learn with time
(18:31:35) rbernste: That is the plan.
(18:31:38) efishman: start small- work with a group at a time modeling this behavior using a different simulation. Once this small gets the idea , have them be leaders in small groups. Do you have each child making a decsion or a group ?
(18:32:37) bfolan: give each member in the group a job
(18:32:38) rbernste: I am not a negative person and they are great kids however there is so much they don't know! I am trying my best to get them independent in so many ways should I just give in and assign the location?
(18:33:06) smeehan: Do you have access to united streaming could this help to develop background for your ELL buddies?
(18:33:30) spiltave: I don't know what that is.
(18:33:47) jschwarz: it is awesome
(18:34:03) rbernste: I don't know why I didn't think of that! I give them jobs for reading groups I guess it would work in this as well. It took them a while to get used to that but they do it now!
(18:34:21) smeehan: Okay, then you most likely don't have that in your district. They are online movies. I was thinking that using vidoe swould be a great equalizer for the ELL kids.
(18:35:33) smeehan: If your doing jobs in reading group you will be able to build on that success for sure.
(18:36:08) rbernste: That is the next step!
(18:37:09) jschwarz left the room.
(18:37:21) smeehan: I wonder if you start bringing in videos or books that they can read on the topic, I wonder if they will then pick up the ball, where they dropped it. When they have more background knowledge they may be ready to make more choices.
(18:38:03) rbernste: We got videos from another person in the class this summer and we are planning on using them this week
(18:38:27) smeehan: Does anyone have a question or something else to share with Rachel?
(18:38:52) mgarrity: An idea: I began my pollution unit with the "culminating video". This gave them a ton of background knowledge before we even started.
(18:39:15) rbernste: I have that planned for tomorrow! I am on top of that
(18:39:17) bfolan: nothing other than divideing tasks within groups like i mentioned before
(18:39:53) smeehan: Meagn, Tell us about the culminating video Megan what did kids see that they could take from the video?
(18:40:02) efishman: I've been doing the same grade level for 15 years and this project is like most things fluid- nothing stays the same.They will learn!!
(18:40:37) smeehan: Good advice ellen.
(18:41:43) mgarrity: They were able to see various types of pollutionthat they didn't know existed: noise, light, etc. They have images from the movie to associate with various types of pollution. They loved the movie because they so rarely see them.
(18:42:16) smeehan: Did you show the movie before or after you gave the hook?
(18:43:33) mgarrity: Before. It was the first thing I did within our unit. I feel this helped them to make their decision about which pollution to create an action plan for.
(18:44:10) smeehan: Megan and Barb how much ongoing planning are you two able to do?
(18:44:32) mgarrity: Together?
(18:44:38) smeehan: Yes.
(18:45:08) bfolan: This week and next week we will on researching...
(18:45:15) bfolan: we have a short week this week...
(18:45:39) bfolan: no school for kids on wednesday and all school field trip on friday...
(18:45:54) bfolan: the third week we will work on action plans...
(18:46:18) bfolan: and then we will continue woth presenting plan with technology...
(18:46:44) bfolan: we hope to present to parents, the board and the Voillage board...
(18:47:07) bfolan: Megan will continue
(18:47:08) mgarrity: We are trying to remain on the "same page". The extra support really helps.
(18:47:29) mgarrity: WE ahve an overall plan, but are taking it a few steps at a time.
(18:47:53) mgarrity: The other 5th grade teachers are involved, and we are helping them also.
(18:48:27) smeehan: That sounds great. Megan don't forget the ... so we know you have more to say.
(18:48:33) bfolan: we will pick tewam winners from each class...
(18:48:39) mgarrity: OOOOOps.
(18:48:46) bfolan: and a winning team from all of them.
(18:49:20) smeehan: Any last words on projects before we start looking at rubrics?
(18:49:58) smeehan: Any questions for anyone?
(18:50:04) bfolan: no
(18:50:11) efishman: no
(18:50:16) smeehan: Thanks for the feedback
(18:50:37) mgarrity: You're welcome
(18:51:10) smeehan: okay, did you get the rubric sent to you in the listserv?
(18:51:15) bfolan: yes
(18:51:17) spiltave: yes
(18:51:19) mgarrity: yes
(18:51:29) rbernste: yes
(18:51:39) efishman: I'm checking-been hectic
(18:52:13) smeehan: There is also a copy posted to the assignment page ellen.
(18:52:47) smeehan: The rubric outline we sent you refelcts some of the feedback we got from you when we discussed the Journal rubrics.
(18:53:16) smeehan: Take a look at the rubric if you can. Let me know if you have a copy or have it online.
(18:53:33) smeehan: I have mine printed out.
(18:53:38) efishman: am online-found it
(18:53:45) smeehan: good
(18:54:03) smeehan: do the rest of you have a copy to look at?
(18:54:14) rbernste: We are getting it
(18:54:17) spiltave: got it
(18:54:22) bfolan: yes
(18:54:27) smeehan: Thanks:)
(18:54:30) rbernste: got it
(18:54:34) mgarrity: yes
(18:54:37) rbernste: 8-)
(18:56:51) smeehan: Okay, what we need to do is examine this rubric and to write the descriptors for section 4....
(18:57:24) smeehan: That is the one that reads Journal entries document changes you plan to make when you implement the project.
(18:57:58) efishman: okay
(18:58:07) smeehan: We have a four point scale and need vergbage that make it clear as to what each poin is for? Is that clear?
(18:58:36) smeehan: Any questions?
(18:58:41) efishman: no
(18:58:51) bfolan: no
(18:58:56) mgarrity: No
(18:59:06) rbernste: no
(18:59:22) smeehan: So lets work backwards. and fill out the section for 4 points or full credit. Will someone suggest verbage to get us started?
(18:59:53) smeehan: Barb will you be our recorder again?
(19:00:01) bfolan: sure
(19:01:18) smeehan: Okay, any thoughts on where we could start with the rubric?
(19:01:52) bfolan: documents and makes reflective changes in project to implememt the project to be used a second time
(19:02:10) efishman: Te student has analyzed the project's for deficiences , dfined these deficinces and proposed new strategiesoreliminating these deficiences
(19:02:15) bfolan: shoul i say all or almost all
(19:02:22) efishman: sorry typing problem will redo
(19:02:57) rbernste: that seems good.
(19:03:08) mgarrity: I like your idea Barb.
(19:03:34) mgarrity: That shows continual growth
(19:04:05) efishman: The student has analyzed the project for deficiences , defined those deficiences and proposed new strategies for eliminating these deficiences
(19:04:08) spiltave: i'm lost
(19:04:09) bfolan: i thought that it means you are thinking about changes as you make them
(19:04:34) smeehan: I think they both get at the same ideas. Reflection, and proposed changes
(19:04:41) rbernste: rubric for our class sue not for th ekids project
(19:04:45) smeehan: Sue?
(19:05:05) smeehan: that is correct. for the journal entries.
(19:05:48) smeehan: Well what would the 3 point section look like?
(19:05:58) spiltave: I know, but which one are you talking about. The 2nd?
(19:06:26) bfolan: documented some changes and made some reflective changes
(19:06:27) smeehan: Counting from the top I want us to look at the fourth row.
(19:06:41) smeehan: the first row is already done for us
(19:06:59) efishman: had to leave rom
(19:07:04) spiltave: About documenting changes that you want to make the next time?
(19:07:10) bfolan: yes
(19:07:26) spiltave: Sorry. I am not visual.
(19:08:12) smeehan: Okay, I am glad you asked, Sue. Is everyone clear about which one we are working on?
(19:08:19) bfolan: yes
(19:08:22) mgarrity: yes
(19:08:30) rbernste: yes
(19:09:10) smeehan: I think we have two excelelnt suggestions, for the four point full credit box. How about the 3 point box?
(19:10:06) bfolan: i already mentioned a suggestion for 3 point
(19:10:23) smeehan: Sorry, I mut have missed it.
(19:10:32) smeehan: documented some changes and made some reflective changes
(19:10:41) bfolan: yes
(19:10:47) rbernste: defined some deficiences and proposed some new strategies for eliminating these deficiences
(19:10:57) smeehan: Okay, but how should we measure some
(19:11:05) smeehan: "some"
(19:11:09) bfolan: good question
(19:11:13) efishman: good question
(19:11:27) rbernste: wouldn't it depend on the number of deficiencies
(19:11:40) spiltave: 1 could be no changes or reflections. 2 could be few and 3 could be some...
(19:11:45) spiltave: to vague?
(19:11:54) bfolan: maybe the reflective part is the part that is important
(19:12:02) spiltave: :-/
(19:12:04) bfolan: not too vague , SUE
(19:12:07) smeehan: What if you have only one deficiency in your project.
(19:12:15) bfolan: we should be so lucky
(19:12:22) smeehan: :)
(19:12:27) efishman: this size project no way
(19:12:34) bfolan: good question nevertheless
(19:13:05) bfolan: again maybe wen should focus in reflection and not numbers
(19:13:29) bfolan: we can always make a project better, right8-)
(19:13:52) efishman: alright, maybe deficiences isn't the only category where you might make changes- sometimes a good idea can be made better once you have worked with it.
(19:14:00) smeehan: maybe maybe we look to see if there is a correction for each deficiency, or maybe we look at how well the weakness and correction are explained , discussed and explained.
(19:14:23) smeehan: Maybe I am stuttering.
(19:14:53) bfolan: and resolved
(19:15:04) rbernste: That sounds like a reasonable compromise.... they only provide some changes for the deficiencies that were identified
(19:15:42) efishman: well what is the purpose for this criteria- to get us to look crtically at our projects and make them better-yes
(19:15:54) bfolan: yes ELLEn
(19:16:56) smeehan: Can some one suggest something for box 3?
(19:17:25) bfolan: do you mean box 2
(19:18:04) spiltave: what is in box 3 exactly knond of?
(19:18:21) smeehan: Thanks Sue lets revist box 3
(19:20:02) smeehan: It reads --documented some changes and made some reflective changes-- I think
(19:21:19) spiltave: So can 2 be documented few changes and made few reflective changes?
(19:21:34) bfolan: i think so
(19:21:40) spiltave: Some is more tha few. Does everyone agree?
(19:21:47) smeehan: How about this --- The changes do not address all of the defiencies encountered or do not clearly relate to the problems encountered.
(19:21:52) efishman: Journal entries do not analyze the entire project or changes are not constructed fully- or deficiences are not cmpletely noted
(19:22:08) bfolan: good idea ellen
(19:22:09) efishman: sory typing issue again
(19:22:14) smeehan: The problem I have is What I think some is might not be what you think some is.
(19:22:36) smeehan: I like that ellen
(19:22:49) spiltave: How will you know if deficiences are completely noted?
(19:23:31) efishman: true-but perception is always different- you can't make everything concrete some things are judgement calls.answering Stephen's concern
(19:24:06) bfolan: I agree
(19:24:23) smeehan: fair enough. I think what you say is true ellen, there will always be some subjectivity.
(19:24:46) efishman: criteria #2 is where we lay down our troubles-splitave
(19:25:05) smeehan: I just want to challenge us to avoid the pit falls os some - fe -- several- or many.
(19:25:32) spiltave: I don't want a 2 on my report card. So I need to underatand what we are saying is a 2 so I don't get one!
(19:25:54) smeehan: That is right.
(19:26:03) efishman: you too will have to reflect and make changes
(19:27:07) spiltave: So what is the verdict? What is a 2?
(19:27:38) smeehan: Is this what we have for box 3?
(19:27:40) smeehan: Journal entries do not analyze the entire project or changes are not constructed fully- or deficiences are not cmpletely noted
(19:27:54) rbernste: few....it is less than some which is what a 3 says
(19:27:55) bfolan: yes
(19:28:10) mgarrity: I agree
(19:28:21) spiltave: They didn't like my some and few.
(19:29:12) rbernste: we out number them
(19:29:26) rbernste: just kidding
(19:29:45) smeehan: No we really need to avoid those words.
(19:30:18) spiltave: I guess I'm just looking at this as a one time thing...
(19:30:31) spiltave: repeated each time I do a journal entry.
(19:30:59) spiltave: So each time, I need to constreuct fully and...
(19:31:39) spiltave: analyze the entire project and completely note my deficiencies and that seems like an overwhelming task...
(19:31:49) spiltave: each day I implement. and...
(19:32:08) spiltave: that is only 1 category out of 6. ...
(19:32:16) bfolan: i think all the jouirnal together should analyze the entire project not all in one day
(19:32:32) spiltave: This is a 1 credit hour course and it seems like more work that a 3 hour course.
(19:33:29) spiltave: Is the rubric going to be used each time I do and entry or used at the end of all of my entries?
(19:33:47) mgarrity: good question
(19:33:52) bfolan: goodditto
(19:33:57) smeehan: This rubric will be used to evaluate all the journals in their entirety. So even though you will be writing about different parts on different days we will look at it as the whole explanation and evaluation of the project.
(19:34:00) rbernste: 2nd
(19:34:20) smeehan: It will be used once.
(19:34:32) spiltave: oaky. I feel better.
(19:34:54) spiltave: But, I still can't type this late in the eevening.
(19:35:15) smeehan: I wish we had more time becuase I can sense some real concern about this. Please email me if you have more questions ...
(19:35:42) smeehan: We are going to have to prepare to switch rooms for the next part of class... the breakout sections...
(19:36:01) bfolan: do i just list serve the rubric as is to you
(19:36:06) smeehan: if you can go to the chat schedule you can see what rooms you will be in.
(19:36:23) smeehan: Barb please email it to me thanks again for doing this.
(19:36:37) bfolan: no problem
(19:36:45) spiltave: sorry to waste everyone's time
(19:37:12) rbernste: you didn't i think you asked what we were thinking
(19:37:20) smeehan: I did not feel this was a waste of time, I hope no one does.
(19:37:24) bfolan: i'm still in 4 I think
(19:37:34) jlohfink [jlohfink@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:37:36) spiltave: what did you pick?
(19:37:41) efishman: what ?- asking questions is the best stratedgy girl:)
(19:38:03) efishman: bye stephen
(19:38:10) spiltave: Barb, what topic did you pick?
(19:38:15) efishman left the room.
(19:38:20) smeehan: Barb Megan anbd Rachel are in room 5
(19:38:20) bfolan: no I am in 2
(19:38:25) rbernste left the room.
(19:38:25) bfolan: technology
(19:38:27) mgarrity left the room.
(19:38:31) bfolan left the room.
(19:38:34) smeehan: Sue you are in room 3
(19:38:44) kend [kdoody@jabber.fnal.gov/Adium] entered the room.
(19:38:58) smeehan left the room.
(19:39:05) smcnicho [smcnicho@jabber.fnal.gov/Gaim] entered the room.
(19:40:02) sgatz: Hi Justine, Sue M.,Ken and Jeanne. Who of you is here now?
(19:40:17) kend: I'm here
(19:40:24) jlohfink: Jeanne' is here
(19:40:44) sgatz: So we are waiting for Sue and Justine, right?
(19:41:01) smcnicho: Sue M is here
(19:41:02) spiltave left the room.
(19:41:28) sgatz: You all indicated that you would like a session on Class management? I am inferring that you have some questions that might need to be answered.
(19:41:44) sgatz: If so, go ahead and ask me a question and we can all jump in and help to answer it.
(19:42:03) smcnicho: I'll start...
(19:42:44) smcnicho: I would like some tips on working with groups and keeping other groups on task. I'm easily distracted by groups not working.
(19:43:33) sgatz: What are the groups doing?
(19:44:40) smcnicho: mostly talking about who got called to the office and why, who has detention and why, who got in trouble on the bus and why, and so on.
(19:44:48) kend: Are they motivated by grades?
(19:45:07) jlohfink: Is there a signal that you can give either verbally or non-verbally to let students know you need them to let them know you will be checking to make sure they are at the point they need to be?
(19:45:26) smcnicho: not the lower groups, which are the classes I'm concerned about.
(19:45:37) sgatz: Have they written a plan for you that they can accomplish during the class time? Just because they are choosing what to do doesn't mean that you can't hold them to a plan that they will create.
(19:46:12) sgatz: That can also be a checkpoint to see what they were able to accomplish in a class period.
(19:46:18) smcnicho: A plan before the days work?
(19:46:24) jlohfink: How about rewards--free time to sit and chat if the days work is done?
(19:46:32) sgatz: Yes--what will they do today?
(19:46:40) sgatz: You aren't creating the plan, they are.
(19:46:45) kend: getting them involved in the evaluation process might help
(19:46:46) jlohfink: Cool--I like the plan or the goal to accomplish each day
(19:46:49) smcnicho: That is interesting.
(19:47:14) smcnicho: That also can give them a checklist to follow.
(19:47:34) sgatz: It becomes a hidden structure as they are planning and deciding what to do, but you know what they need to accomplish in that class period and can hold them to it.
(19:47:45) sgatz: If you give them a checklist to follow, you are planning, not the kids.
(19:48:04) sgatz: No the teacher is leading instead of the kids.
(19:48:29) sgatz: Do you see the difference?
(19:48:31) smcnicho: I did mean for the students to make their groups' checklist for the next day.
(19:48:45) sgatz: Okay--then that would work. I misunderstood you.
(19:49:16) sgatz: I think the suggestions your team mates shared might be other ideas to use as well. You know jr. high kids--you have to have lots of strategies!
(19:49:46) sgatz: Does this help, Sue?
(19:50:14) smcnicho: Yes, I'm going to try the to-do list idea.
(19:50:22) sgatz: Great!
(19:50:29) sgatz: Does anyone else have a question?
(19:51:00) kend: What about the student in a group that is not contributing because he knows the group will do it?
(19:51:24) jlohfink: You have both group grades and individual grades
(19:51:54) jlohfink: Or you have each student rate the amount contributed from 100%
(19:52:05) sgatz: At the end of class twice a week or so, can you ask each child to write down what they accomplished to help the team? Every team member will have to sign what is written so no one can claim work that they didn't complete.
(19:52:26) kend: OK
(19:52:31) sgatz: It is really hard to say you did something when your friends know that you didn't.
(19:52:44) sgatz: Sometimes the peer pressure makes them work harder.
(19:52:46) jlohfink: I like that idea sgatz
(19:52:54) sgatz: I am glad I can help.
(19:53:06) kend: Peer pressure sometimes works
(19:53:28) sgatz: The goal is to have them self assess themselves and this tool might help.
(19:53:52) sgatz: Does that help, Ken?
(19:54:02) smcnicho: They might be surprised at how much they did accomplish.
(19:54:06) kend: yes
(19:54:16) sgatz: Okay--then who else has a question for our team?
(19:55:46) sgatz: Are you all asking kids to go to the computers and use them at the same time? If so, could there be groups doing different things at the same time? What do you think?
(19:55:47) jlohfink: Does anyone gather students back from their varied researching tasks for a re-group ?
(19:56:04) sgatz: Good question. What do you all do?
(19:56:32) kend: No but it sounds like a good idea
(19:56:40) sgatz: I think so too, Ken.
(19:56:51) jlohfink: 'm trying to get kids to think about the process of researching as well as the products that they create and self-evaluate on both
(19:57:00) sgatz: It would be a good way to share learning and decide the next steps.
(19:57:33) jlohfink: Do you think it would be best before they leave, or the next day at the beginning?
(19:57:40) sgatz: And, having kids think about their progress/accomplishments is very helpful. Sometimes the best learning occurs when they fail first.
(19:58:16) sgatz: I think it is best before they leave while it is fresh in their minds. But the next day will work, too.
(19:58:28) sgatz: What do the rest of you think?
(19:59:02) smcnicho: Doing it both days if there is time in between session.
(19:59:23) sgatz: You mean start it after class and finish it the next day?
(19:59:31) kend: 50 minute period go fast
(19:59:44) sgatz: That is a good idea as well. We have to play with the 50 minutes as best we can.
(20:00:39) sgatz: What else causes you frustration when implementing your projects?
(20:01:43) kend: Students were very much into their computer but it's hard to notice at first if it's quality research
(20:02:44) sgatz: You might ask them what topics they researched and what they learned. If it is a real problem, they could keep a log of where they have been. THat seems like a lot of busy work for everyone, but you could do it with the few you are unsure of.
(20:02:56) jlohfink: Searching skills can be taught just like you would teach how to write a letter
(20:03:17) jlohfink: You begin with a limited scope, and gradually broden.
(20:03:49) jlohfink: Students perpetually turn to Ask Jeeves and other search engines, but don't know how to formulate a good search strategy
(20:04:02) smcnicho: I, too, notice students looking elsewhere on the computer.
(20:04:16) jlohfink: Work with your librarian, if you are unsure as to how to do this
(20:04:30) sgatz: That is a great suggestion!
(20:04:49) jlohfink: I am experminenting with having students write out their search strategy before they go ont he computer...
(20:05:03) smcnicho: another interesting idea.
(20:05:06) jlohfink: keywords, synonyms, which search engines or databases they plan to use.
(20:05:20) jlohfink: Then I will walk around and assist with searching.
(20:05:38) smcnicho: will their plans have to be approved?
(20:06:18) jlohfink: At first, I think yes.
(20:06:56) sgatz: That ideas is similar to the plan I mentioned. Thinking about it ahead of time will help them and you! You can gradually release the responsibility to the students as the demonstrate they can do it!
(20:07:03) jlohfink: It might slow down access until they become used to creating them, but with practice together and then individual, I'll check while they are working.
(20:07:45) smcnicho: What grade level do you have?
(20:08:29) jlohfink: 5-8th. More handholding needed with 5th
(20:08:36) sgatz: Again, this is another check point for the facilitator to see if the kids are doing what you want them to do. It will also let you know if you need to include a 'mini lesson' for those who don't get it.
(20:09:58) sgatz: What other things do you want to talk about tonight? What is on your minds?
(20:10:35) jlohfink: In planning a unit--how much do you prpare ahead of time--checklists, rubrics etc.
(20:10:38) smcnicho: the Whit Sox!
(20:10:43) smcnicho: White
(20:11:35) sgatz: I would have some generic checklists ahead of time as I anticipate the kids who might need extra support. I might draft a rubric, but I would like to have them help me complete it so that they understand the target. Sometimes . .
(20:11:52) sgatz: I never use all the supports I have 'just in case.' Other times, I use them all and more
(20:12:02) smcnicho: I planned a rubric ahead of time to help me see what I wanted them to accomplish, but...
(20:12:24) smcnicho: I plan to have the students help complete the rubric.
(20:12:30) kend: I had a great Day 1 rubric planned ahead of time but it was way too much for one day
(20:12:54) sgatz: I believe in that strategy, Susan. Ken--now you know what you need to revise for the next time y ou use your project.
(20:13:19) sgatz: You have all been wonderful tonight to help each other and share suggestions and frustrations. I hope we all helped each other.
(20:13:22) kend: I think I'll do the first day away from computers - planning
(20:13:36) sgatz: That would be a good idea, Ken.
(20:13:44) smcnicho: Yes, me too.
(20:14:03) sgatz: Be sure to check the assignment page, complete your journaling, and complete any reflections to the plone.
(20:14:43) sgatz: Thanks for working together. Have a good night. You are free to go if there are no more questions. Our next class is on Halloween night and starts at 6.
(20:14:54) kend: thanks
(20:15:04) smcnicho: good night.
(20:15:07) jlohfink: Thanks. Have a great week everyone!
(20:15:08) smcnicho left the room.
(20:15:09) sgatz: Good night everyone.
(20:15:16) kend left the room.
(20:15:17) jlohfink left the room.
(20:15:31) sgatz left the room.